Tres Garner 0:00
There’s a digital artist named Beeple. He has this quote where he talks about like, you don’t have a lack of ideas, you have a lack of deadlines. That’s my current favorite quote right now. So I think the idea of like giving myself deadlines and a time of managing my own time has been very helpful.

Nate Disarro 0:20
Hey, it’s Nate Disarro, and welcome to Titans of Industry, the podcast where I talk to industry leaders and innovators who are at the top of their game and leading the pack in their fields, uncovering some of the best stories in today’s business landscape. In this episode, I have a long distance interview with Tres Garner, a young but well established creative and visionary in Houston, Texas, trace his co founder and co director at Good Measure an ad agency helping advocate for nonprofit organizations and causes. Tracy is also the Creative Director at The Bible Project, a nonprofit crowdfunded organization that explains lessons from the Bible in a way that unifies people. He talks through his journey from an artsy kid to an agency professional and freelance creative, all while finding an organization and a workflow that helps him progress in today’s competitive digital space. Now, let’s get to the episode. But before we do, let’s talk about content, strategy and video for marketing your business. Our team at Content Titan is committed to great storytelling, no matter what industry you’re in, it’s crucial to engage, entertain, inform and captivate your audience. And video is the best way to do it. Having worked with people and organizations of all shapes and sizes, our team has the experience to deliver the right content at the right price. We are easy to do business with and we know how to get you results. Visit contenttitan.co to learn more. Now, here’s the episode with Tres Garner. All right, Tres, thanks so much for jumping in. I really appreciate you taking the time to have this conversation with us. So I just want to kind of get started with just a little background little intro on where you’re from and what you do to make a living these days.

Tres Garner 2:11
Totally, very cool. Well, thanks for having me on. This is great. It’s gonna be really fun. I, so yeah, my name is Tres Garner. I am I go by Tres, because I’m the third dress and the third, Jerry and my family. So I go by Tres. And I grew up in a pretty artsy family. So I went to school for art, quickly found graphic design and was like, Oh, this, this is probably going to be a little bit more lucrative. And I also enjoy it. So I’m gonna, I’m gonna start taking design classes. And I absolutely did love it. And I kind of had a keen eye for it. I was like willing to be experimental, I think that was like the painterly artists side of things. But I also was interested in like solving the problem, which was a little bit of my, my dad’s a developer, you write software. So there was probably a little bit of that. And that was all that schooling took place all in Houston. And then college was Sam Houston. And, and I met my wife in college, we got married shortly after. And since graduating, I feel like I was the lucky one I got I mean, I got a degree in graphic design. And then my first job out of college was as I was at an agency, and the agency when I started was just a small team of six. And by the time I had left, there was about 33 employees. So we grew really quickly over the two and a half years that I was there. And, and I can get more into that, but going into where I’m at now. Now currently, I’m in this freelance world, right, so I’ve heard the hype and the excitement in the freelance world. And so I’ve been doing that for about a year and a half. And I will be completely honest with you. I think I like it. That’s the answer that I feel safest kind of mentioning is i think i like it i i really do love working with a team COVID took us out of the office, and all into a little room. And that was an adjustment. But I think I have I imagined myself finding a full time position with a full team. And just like collaborating that way. Right now I think this has been really great experience and I’ve got to work on like a wide range of projects. But however, I think I’m going to find myself back into back into an agency or an in house somewhere. I want that experience anyway, so current freelance art director, Creative Director, designer, past art kid, that’s where I’m at.

Nate Disarro 4:51
I love it. Well that’s a great, great intro. There’s a lot to explore there. So we’ll

Tres Garner 4:55
yes I know you pick and choose. You pick and choose you tell me what do you want to do it

Nate Disarro 5:00
I choose my own adventure. Okay, yeah. Well, let’s let’s kind of start with this idea of being an artsy kid. Right? Because I think there’s a lot of people out there who, you know, as you, as you’re growing up, you’re learning what the world is all about. And, you know, for some people, you gravitate towards creativity towards art towards being able to just do things that you’ve seen in your head and put those out into the world. Yeah, a lot of parents start to get scared, because they’re like, What is this artsy kid going to do for a living? And I think nowadays, we have a lot more opportunities than probably what our parents were thinking when they were kids. Right? Especially, I mean, I’m, you know, starting to really love the NFT space, and the idea that artists can get paid in new ways. And we may go down that rabbit hole here in a bit, but as an artsy kid growing up, what what made you decide at some point that this was what you wanted to pursue, instead of, you know, getting a history degree?

Tres Garner 5:58
Totally, yeah. Okay. So this is where this is where I have, I have a major cheat code, I have a major major cheat code. I have, I have a wonderful parents. So there’s, there’s kind of the kind of the base that not a lot of, not a lot of people might not have. But my parents got pregnant when they were 18. And so my parents were kids, whenever they were when they had me. And so my dad worked at a record shop and my mom worked at Foley’s and, and that was, so I had really young parents who watched Speed Racer, and Beavis and Butthead, and still played with action figures, and like collectible collected, like Star Wars action figures, like that was still, that was still my parents. So I that that element was always there. My grandparents owned a flower, like a florist. And so there was a little bit of creativity there. So I think I just was able to have a family of people who were interested in making things and, and being creative, that usually when I felt like pushback from my parents, it was never like, for a form of like, monetary gain, which I think worked in my benefit, I think because of that I have like a different perspective of, of, of money, but, and I’m making a living, I guess you could say, often it was because I think the artists side of me was like, just really dramatic that like, my my moves. And what I’m talking about when I was a kid, like my moves, to make art or to like, the ideas I had were, like, huge and had to be executed exactly the way I imagined them the first time around. And so usually, the pushback wasn’t like this is that it wasn’t possible, but was like What’s okay, hold on, what’s the first step though, you know, which I think is a, which is something that I, I’ve kind of had to fish out. By the way, all of this and I’m saying is like me processing this through therapy and friends, and like a decade of work life experience. I’m pulling this out. Now, of course, this isn’t something that like, my parents perfectly communicated to me, but like, through looking back, I’ve kind of asked myself that same question. And I think it’s just the element of like, the element of like, the edit is being able to edit yourself, being able to identify what that first step is to your big idea. And if the goal isn’t to do exactly what you have in your mind, but it’s just kind of the process is part of the goal, then you’re gonna you’re gonna hit the mark most of the time, and find joy in what you’re working on. The so that was the long winded answer. The other answer is that I just played with a lot of Legos and painted and stuff. So that was, I played a lot, played a lot of pretend, you know, so there’s that. See, I, I didn’t even know like, whenever I started doing graphic design in college, like, people always ask me how to start and I’m like, Dude, I didn’t download illustrator until I was like, 20. So like, you don’t have to start with you know, you don’t have to start super super, you can gotta just go for it. But I, when I first heard about Illustrator and Photoshop, I thought that the, I thought I would just be like designing band posters, or something like that is what I saw. And that’s, that just shows my Introduction to Digital Design was like really rudimentary, which is fun. I mean, yeah, yeah.

Nate Disarro 9:31
Well, and I think that’s the case for a lot of people. You know, there’s a very small percentage of people who, they figure it out when they are 14 years old or whatever, and start working towards their career at that point. I think a lot of people, you’ve got a knack for a lot of things, but you don’t know how to refine that because you don’t know how big the world is. You don’t know how I ended up using it. And I think for a lot of us in college, we get exposed to new things and then you realize like, Okay, here’s a tool I can learn how to use Yeah, and make it Living with it. And it connects with how my mind works. And that’s that’s the best case scenario that we all hope we fall into.

Tres Garner 10:06
Yeah. Yeah, totally.

Nate Disarro 10:09
So, so you obviously at some point found illustrator found Photoshop download and start playing with it messing with it. But some people do that and it just doesn’t make sense it doesn’t click did it click for you pretty much right off the bat how the software works and how you can take a shape and, you know, mask it and form it to what you see in your head.

Tres Garner 10:29
Man, I think about that, I try to remember that because I think about this is like me describing something before, before I actually answered the question. But I think about this whenever I bought, like, whenever we bought my grandparents, like an iPad, for the first time, I was like, I bought my grandma an iPad for Christmas. And I was like, man, there’s so many steps that you’ve missed to fully understand this. Like, you know, like, if you start from iPad one, and then you’ve gotten an iPad every two years, since you are like three years, whatever you kind of can get, like, it’s not that big of a jump. It’s funny because like, we’ve been in Illustrator now for a decade, and plus, and you think, oh, there’s a lot that you have to kind of catch up on. And I always sort of put myself back into that mind space, like, where did I see? Like, what when did it click, I think and the first thing that came in my head whenever you ask that question was a specific project. And for me, maybe it wasn’t the software, but it was like, it was just a project, it was the overall like concept, I realized I wanted to make something and these tools were going to help me make it it was like level one, there’s two, there’s like two identity like brand identity classes I took in college, the very first one was just like a logo, it was the project was just to make a singular logo. And I had this idea to like create an ad to you the boxes were either make a tea brand, or a coffee brand, whichever one you want, and just the logo. But I I came up with this whole identity system for called grounds where it was about like a sustainable Coffee Company. So you got like a bag of coffee. And it also came with instructions on like, how to dispose of your grounds and like came with seeds if you wanted to use them in your garden. And it came in like a wood cedar box. And the bag was like biodegradable, and I created like an identity I create, I had an idea. And I was able to like build out a full identity system using Illustrator and using the tools that we had used in the previous two classes, like intro. And I was like, Oh, like this works. And in part of the brand was also like me drawing some elements. And so I think like, Incorporated something like that, that I enjoyed. But that is the first project I remember, I remember doing and being like, Oh, I’m going to use this like this is totally going to be able to make things that I think are cool. And in that kind of guided a lot of I think a lot of why I followed it was because I was like, Oh, I can make things that are cool. And I like things that are cool. So that’s gonna work out like we’re just gonna want to keep following that, that kind of spark. I love it. Yeah.

Nate Disarro 13:18
Well, I want to I want to move into your your time with agency, because I think, you know, a lot of our biggest clients are agencies. And yeah, so I totally understand the agency world. From a from a vendor perspective, and then having worked in partnership with a lot of agencies, I kind of understand the inside the inner workings of how it all happens. So at some point, you’ve got to take your skill set, you got to take your expertise, and you’ve got to mesh that with how it works inside of a business. And right. You know, we can’t all just go out and be street artists all day creating the art we want and not getting paid for it. At some point. It’s got to make sense for somebody else to spend money on it. So yeah, when you first enter that agency world, did that make sense to you to the whole idea of there’s there’s a revenue model behind your skills? Is that registered? Did you have to learn that along the way?

Tres Garner 14:14
I think it will, it totally blew my mind because I learned more than my first two weeks in working at an agency than I did my four years in college. And so and I I’m that’s not like a dramatic statement. I called myself dramatic a few minutes ago, that’s not a dream. That one is not a dramatic statement. That’s very real. And it really taught me good or bad really showed me the like, value of my time the value of of what it was meaning like okay, to make this work has to get done. And I can either look at this as being like an attempt to be overworked or I could look at this as like, Oh, these skills have to require require something and if it’s time or it’s money or it’s quality. It Right now what I can what I can crunch is time. And so that’s where the skill that’s where the I think that’s really where like a lot of the illustrator skill, Photoshop skill, creative skills really got just in the pressure cooker was yeah, the first few weeks you kind of realized like, Okay, I have to make before in college, like I said, like to make a brochure was like a four week five week project, and I’m laying out a brochure and they need it by like 3pm. That is like totally different. And that I think that that that’s when I realized that. Yeah, that was a first step of like, okay, I have to get quicker at doing this. Yeah, that’s a quick answer. Yeah.

Nate Disarro 15:40
Well, and it’s a good answer. Because I mean, you know, my staffs pretty young, and they’re all kind of working through all that stuff. And we deal with a lot of clients to that, that, you know, time is money, but there’s a reasonable expectation to create what they want to be Yeah. So, thinking back, I mean, what would you go back and tell your younger self? You know, those first Yeah, totally wish you knew that. Now, you don’t even think about,

Tres Garner 16:07
I was just rushing every part of the project, instead of instead of like, identifying what I enjoyed doing, and this is what I talk with, with young teammates, or like new creatives in the space, is I always talked about, like, there’s usually something that you do love about the project, whether it’s like, Do you really love putting your headphones on? No one talking to you and just like grinding it out? Or do you really love that like mood boarding process where we kind of print out things are working with or in figma together? Or like, the more collaborative elements or framer out, right, so like, what are the more collaborative elements that we’d like to work in? Like, what part of the process do you like, and just think of the whole, you know, using my bad example of a brochure from 9am to 3pm, in your window, break that and now break that up into like percentages, and make the part that you like, the most. And you think that’s going to balance that with what’s going to actually get the, get the design and creative work done. And, like manage it that way, I often work with like, when I work with like, in house teams, the project seems like, it’s always funny, it’s never You’re never in a moment where you feel like you have the perfect amount of time, you always feel like you have way too much time, or you have no time at all. Now, I don’t think I’ve ever received a project even like, that is the exact amount of time it takes. It’s always like, oh, man, okay, I’m gonna need to, like skip and make sure I schedule things between now and the deadlines that I have other work coming in or so I can manage this other thing. Or it’s like, Oh, dude, next Tuesday’s, so quick, okay, I gotta figure this out. So whenever I work with an in house team, or an agency style, I always look at the get, look at the timeline and decide like, Okay, we’re gonna need to do like, three updates a week, we’re gonna meet on Monday, on Wednesday, and on Friday, and on Wednesday, when we meet, this is all kind of, I’m making this up, but I’m making up this timeline. But on Wednesday, when we meet, we need to see like a 30% advancement in, in this brand. Or in this, you know, this video. And that doesn’t mean like 30% of the videos edited or like 30% of the footage is selected. It could be I just mean 30% of the whole project as advanced and what other whatever steps so like, for a brand for a brand, I would be like, it looks like we’re getting there with type. And looks like we’re getting there with like, some some of these elements and like inspiration, but like, logo wise, we’re not there at all, but that’s okay, because like we’re still progressing percentage wise towards this. And so, kind of instead of saying like, okay, there’s a very linear way to complete this, I really tried to, like help create a baseline of like, what part of the project are we moving forward, and as long as we’re moving forward a specific amount, we’re going to be alright. And usually, then you can kind of start to appreciate a specific project more, because it’s not maybe the funnest, or more most creative, but you’re kind of picking and choosing your, your favorite parts of that project, you’re able to kind of like hone in on those a little bit. Does that make sense?

Nate Disarro 19:16
Absolutely. Makes makes 100% sense. Because, you know, we’re in that same world too. And yeah, at times, you know, we can spend weeks on an edit. But is that edit actually getting towards completion? Or are we just trying so many different things that we’re not actually getting anywhere?

Tres Garner 19:31
And I always like I was trying to remind myself, I mean, I remind myself of this all the time, but I’ve tried to remind my team of this all the time is like nothing is wasted. I don’t I don’t believe that I stopped giving I gave up on that. Nothing. It’s not like you’re wasting time by doing a part of the process. Like all of the steps have to happen. So like, let’s just let’s just rock with them and then get to the part that’s fun.

Nate Disarro 19:53
Yeah, I love it. One of the phrases I’ve been kind of thrown around a lot lately that I really I adopt it into my work. But some people disagree with it. But it’s essentially that excellence, strive for excellence, not perfection. And the idea there is that we can be excellent at what we do. And we can put out excellent products. But if we’re trying to make the perfect creative product, it’s we’re going to be working on it forever. And from a business standpoint, and from a getting it done standpoint, it’s just never going to achieve perfection. What’s your take on that idea?

Tres Garner 20:31
I love it. I have a story. Are you ready? I’m ready. There was a time in high school. I was I was a part of like the theatre drama. But I didn’t do the acting part. I didn’t I didn’t do like the stage work. I was all like crew. So I like put builds build sets put together sets pulled like wire pulling like ropes and stuff like that for the actual play. Our high school did a the production grease. And I was I was a junior or senior that point. And so I was actually tasked with like building the car building Greased Lightning that’s in the in the show. And I decided to build I built the frame like with just like plywood, some plywood and two by fours was super loose, it was pretty much just like a box. And then I, what I did is I like covered the whole car and that pink, kind of insulated foam from Home Depot, they come in like four foot by eight foot sheets. And I just like glue them together. So it was even more blocky of a car. And the idea was like, Okay, I’m gonna cut through this and like, create the curves of these 1960s kind of vehicles, catalogs and stuff. So that that was my plan. And we are so to catch you up in the story. We are a few few weeks away from from production. And I am sitting there in the in the workshop with a very blocky pink foam car. And I had looked at it for probably two days, and pulled up my inspiration and pin stuff on a board and bought new blades for the for the jigsaw. And I’ve done I’ve done everything I possibly could. And I remember my theater teacher his name was his name was last name was unreal. And he walked up and he was looking stood next to me looking at this pink thing. And I started to start to describe like what I’m doing and like what my plan is. And he took the little jigsaw out of my hand and he went over and just cut right into it the shape of like this super big like swooping fender for the front right wheel and kind of carved it again and started give it more shape. And it was still, you know, a polygon, but it had started to have a little bit of shape. And then he came over and handed me the solid. He’s like, sometimes you just gotta cut into it, and then walked away. And I was like, dang, that’s gonna be a life lesson, isn’t it? And, of course, I didn’t think that then. But I think about all the time now is like the prep. And the excellence part really is just often you just got to cut it, you just got to get into it. And I was trying to make something perfect. I was saying 24 inches away for something that was perfect to people sitting 35 feet away and in a theater seat. And so there was there’s there’s some translation there for brand and for creative, obviously, not, it’s not a complete, you know, one to one, but I really, I really try to I remind myself of that often when I’m staring at something a little too long. I’m like, Okay, what do I need to cut into? Or am I actually done? Like, you know, what am I really, what am I trying to make here? What’s the goal? That’s what I think that’s

Nate Disarro 23:39
brilliant. And it’s a great parallel, because I mean, that story is exactly kind of the mentality, especially for just getting something started, you know, but we can’t start something expecting five minutes later to have a finished product. And, you know, a lot of it’s like molding with clay, you know, you start with a brick of clay. And eventually you’ve got something that’s really ugly, but it’s starting to take shape and form of what you’re working towards. And then at some point, you got to call it a day, you got to be done with it. You can keep working that clay until there’s nothing left. But you know, and I’ve really seen and tried to dig into that a lot and kind of push that with my team that you know, we can’t expect perfection. We just have to jump in, move forward. And yeah, if we’re good at our craft, then we’re going to create something that’s excellent. There’s no question.

Tres Garner 24:28
One of the things that I y’all probably do this so if you do or tell me maybe how y’all, your team is like, approach this, but it wasn’t until like three years ago that I did I start taking retros seriously. So like going back and once you’ve completed a project with your team, like reviewing the project as a team and doing a little retro on asking, Hey, what seemed like it worked here what was like, What can we do better? Or like how might we and then what what was like exciting and worked really Well, and maybe too well for the project, and like having that open dialogue, and that that’s creating the space to, like, have that conversation and try to that. That was like, huge for me because usually it was like, what I found was really difficult. Whenever I had whenever I was working with design directors are creative directors, and I was just a art director, lead designer, I would often be like, okay, we can we sure I don’t have to do my best work now. But like, how will I know where my best work? What direction I need to go to make my best work. And I maybe didn’t articulate it that way back then. But I really I think that those those moments of like, being able to look back and retro over a project is like really helpful for for a team to get better to look back and kind of see what worked and what didn’t.

Nate Disarro 25:51
Yeah, no question. I mean, I’m a self admitted. Like military jet nerd. Like, it’s one of my favorite things in the world. The Blue Angels and Thunderbirds, you know, any military jet, I just love to watch it fly in the sky. And anybody pays attention to those performance teams, a Blue Angels specifically, they’re known for being more harsh in their debrief of a flight than they are their prep for the flight. And because they know that if there’s a tiny little mistake, while they’re flying 36 inches from each other 400 miles an hour, it’s there’s no option. It’s catastrophic, over so yeah, the stakes are certainly high there. And that’s an extreme example. But I think in our own worlds of creating, you know, content and putting things out for the world to see and interact with, it’s that same thing, what did we learn along the way that next time is just a non negotiable? But if we don’t go back and look at that, then we may just look right over it. Because it’s it’s hindsight, it’s in the past? And if we’re not evaluating it, then who cares? You know? Yeah. So I think that’s the best way to learn, and certainly a worthwhile endeavor for anybody in a creative world to kind of look back at the work you did. It’s amazing how quickly you can deconstruct what went right, what went wrong. Yeah, instead of trying to figure out how to do something right on the next project.

Tres Garner 27:21
Yep. Exactly. Totally agree. Yep. game changer for me.

Nate Disarro 27:26
All right, so let’s move into kind of what you’re doing now your current role, I’d love to hear more about the project you’re working on. Yeah. And sort of the role you’ve taken now that you’ve kind of gone this freelance route. So give me a little insight there,

Tres Garner 27:41
I, I don’t feel this way. I know for sure, I have had a very unique entrance into agency world. And so I have had to navigate a certain type of difficulty of like, of, of, of making work of leading teams in editing and being in positions that I feel like I’ll be most helpful, because of my unique experience going through agency. The short story to that is the art director of the agency that I first started working at left, like 910 months into working there. And I started to cover that role. And so way earlier than I should have, I was kind of given more responsibility than I knew what to do with. So I made a lot of mistakes. And then I was kind of performing art director style. duties and project leads really early, honestly. So that that has like built this interest in leading a creative team at this stage of my career. And being a part of a creative team at this stage of my career, which I’ve quite honestly and like trying to navigate the best way to do it, and to be both taken seriously, but also like, but still in a place to like, grow and learn. So currently, what I’m doing is I am acting as a freelance art director and creative director for agencies and for ordered or nonprofits or for, for in house teams or for really for for individual personal projects, like solo projects. In the current gigs that I have now our I have a head of creativity gig with an agency called Draw history. They’re located in Australia. And they met they they reached out to me through a good through good measure, which is a nonprofit that I work on with a friend named Alex, which we can talk more about later too. And so draw history is a really great they’re really great friends, partners, clients that I work with regularly. And then I pick up a few branding projects through like pre previous clients that I’ve worked with a lot of them are in the Houston area. So there’s some like boutiques and clothing companies like little boutiques, and Houston that I do reoccurring work with. And then, and then the most recent, being an in house creative director job at at the Bible project, which is a nonprofit, content creation animation studio that develops YouTube videos, and explainer videos, but also has recently launched an app has been doing a podcast for several years. That’s like a long form podcast. And so that was my, that’s, that’s been my most current experience with a brand in house, which is new for me, because I actually before that had done mostly agency work. So those are the three things that I’m kind of, those are the three things that I’m kind of doing at this at this time. And there’s they’re similar in terms of like, but they’re just at different frequencies. So like, the head of creativity, withdrawal history, has been a ton of like more mentoring work and less creative work. Lots of like standing meetings and open kind of conversation rooms with that brand team and creative team. And then some like one on one feedback loops for the creative projects that are actually going on in the agency, and then draw, and then the Bible project being like the more in depth, highly involved, developing mark, working with marketing, working with App teams, and helping push and build creative direction for their annual goals. So that’s that, that’s kind of that what do you got? What questions

Nate Disarro 31:43
keep you busy for a minute? Yeah, that’s, well, let’s start. Let’s start here. So coming from the agency world, and now sort of having your hand in, I guess you could consider three separate ways that you have to shift your mind every day, you’ve got, yeah, you know, local boutique clients, and then you’ve got an international client, it sounds like so you got to yet think and work in an international format. And then you’ve got a nonprofit client that, you know, has apps and animations. And so agencies, that’s what you do, right? Like, when you’re in an agency, you’re constantly shifting your thinking from, you know, today, I’m working on a flower shop tomorrow, I’m working on a bank, you know, or whatever. Yeah. So that piece of it seems like it’s not necessarily a new concept, but dealing with three different sort of entities or types of clients. Yeah, as a freelancer dealing with both the creative side and sort of you’ve got to manage the client expectations and you know, your own little internal business side, how do you handle that on a day to day basis,

Tres Garner 32:54
okay, another cheat code, as soon as you can afford it, hire somebody. That is, that is I cannot, I cannot, I cannot advise that enough. A huge turning point for me was the end of 2020. When I hired a part time project manager, I like essentially like an admin, someone to help me go over projects that I have, for the next four weeks, make sure that they’re following up for deadlines, and they are sending invoices. And following up with those things, that was a huge first step with me. And I might have, I might have done it. Actually, I don’t think I even did it that early. I went, I just started making an extra like $2,500 a month, like I was not immediately it was like growing. And as soon as I got to like $2,500 a month more than I was used than I was used to having it like, at my agency, I was like, immediately started spending $1,500 a month on a project manager and a setting aside part of that budget like 500 to $300 a month for like random freelance, like other designers and freelancers to help me out if I needed to, like export all the logo functions and it was gonna take like two hours, I would rather just pay a designer 50 bucks an hour to do that, then do that then didn’t me sit down and do it. So as soon as I found that margin, I immediately started hiring people to help to help buy my time back and then buy my like, my like, yeah, my my brain really thinks that anything, buy my brain back a little bit. So that was a huge step for me where that can start I’ll tell you like the only reason I felt brave enough doing that was because like 234 years before that I had, I finally started spending money on fonts. I was like, I realized like, Oh, this is my profession. I can stop downloading these free janky fonts I need to pay for this and invest into like, what this is, for me as a career, I take this seriously. And so buying fonts, buying elements, buying tracks, like buying music, like all of those things, I just became progressively more interesting and, like, important to me. And so it started there. So it started at like a $30 font every once in a while. And over the then it turned into like actually hiring out project managers or like freelance designers to help with the work. Now, that is just a general number overall, like, what how do you kind of manage all that a general number one is like, don’t be afraid to ask and pay for help if you can afford it. And you’d be really surprised. Truly, you can be really surprised. If you have a really great designer friend, ask how much Hey, how much what would you like, Can I pay you to do this, you’d be surprised to how approachable it is. So don’t think necessarily that it’s like, and you can just, you know, for some small stuff, it can just be your friend, you can just Venmo him, you don’t even have to know don’t go crazy, you don’t even have to, you know, if it’s just little projects kind of start somewhere. That was that was a big one for me. And the other one is I happen to be I happen to have a really, a really tight, like Google Calendar, I have a seriously, I have a pretty hardcore regimen in terms of like, how I block my time, what my day looks like, and how it’s blocked. How my everything like how my Google Chrome tabs are set up and saved where my bookmarks lives. The checklist I review in the morning that I make from notion, like I have the like the pretty set standard of how I want to work through the work. And so that’s helped. And then the other thing, I guess the to address the the Australian client, I work with them in at night. So essentially, I have a daughter, I put her down for bed, we put her down for bed around like seven, and about 730 between some of their eight, I’ll get online and work with them till about nine. And that’s only three days a week, really, I have those type of set hours. So that’s pretty manageable. And that for them is like 930 The next morning. And so that’s like the beginning of their day. And I can catch one on ones before they actually start. They’re kind of like before they started their work. But the time difference obviously is like a huge factor is like I still have I still have like the ability to have a day and have time with my family and stuff like that. And I’ll tell you if it did catch it, like cut into that it wouldn’t happen. And I would just find and I would just try to find a different way to a different way to work with them.

Nate Disarro 37:51
Yeah, well, I tell you what this is this is an interesting conversation point right here. Because, you know, the world has gotten a little bit smaller, especially through COVID, where there’s sort of been opportunities to connect with people in different time zones, different parts of the world do more remote work, it’s become more of a normal thing. And I just got back from Europe. And it was really interesting. Because same same factor there. I was seven hours ahead. And I had to essentially do something at the end of my day, to get over to the US so that they could post it by the start of theirs. And yeah, it’s it was, I don’t know, it’s just sort of an interesting concept where I almost want to start looking for people in other parts of the world that can do work while I’m sleeping. Oh, wake up the next day. It’s the clients like how did you get that done so fast, you know, and here’s an element that I want to make happen to accomplish that,

Tres Garner 38:52
I guess it just I have that habit of working a little bit in the evening, and I work a little bit in the morning, preparing the day, preparing the team for the day is like, essential. It’s like, even though right now my team for sometimes it’s just me, if it whether it be for, you know whether it was Bible project, or it’s draw history now or if it’s or if it’s the freelance work I’m working on as a freelancer who is helping finish out a brand project. Like, because I’m already at my computer for like an hour or so in the evening, I will totally schedule emails and set up, I’ll schedule all that stuff in the evening to go out that next morning really early and or at you know, 6am or so I’ll be on the computer and I’ll say I’ll set the exact same thing. I’ll set those emails to those emails to schedule the slack messages to schedule and reminders or reminders to go off and re make sure my calendar makes sense. Write up agendas for meetings if they’re out already placed in the Google meeting. So all of that time is something and again, this is something that I just really love doing. So this is not necessarily like a Step. Yeah. So I don’t, I don’t want to make this, like, make this conversation about like, you know, work life balance, I truly feel really happy and at good balance with it. And I just really love making sure people feel prepared. The worst thing ever is like being the butt end of a joke. And usually when you’re not ready for something near the end of the joke, so I don’t want anyone I don’t want me or anyone around me to feel like they didn’t know something going into it. And so I tried to like over prepare for that scenario.

Nate Disarro 40:29
Nice. Yeah. All right, I want to talk about the current bigger projects you’re working on. So let’s start with the Bible project. And what’s your essential role there? And then how do you kind of bring the creativity to it that is demanded by ultimately the audience, right, the people that are consuming the product?

Tres Garner 40:49
Yeah. So. So the Bible project is, like I mentioned was my first experience in house, which was extremely, I liked it way more than I thought I would. And so in the beginning, in the, in the beginning of the conversation, when I mentioned, like, at some point, I see myself finding another in house role, maybe at an agency or actually added a singular brand, the Bible project, that’s the Bible projects fault. They like the organ, the organization itself, and just the team, the structure, the team has been, like, incredibly exciting. And so what that looks like is because there are, I’m guessing you’re asking kind of practically. So I’ll kind of go quickly through that. And then you can ask maybe some questions what you think. But there, there is a there’s a video team that creates not only like high production, but also like internal videos, whether it’s like explaining how something works, or like specific events that are coming, or external, larger production videos like, entire like series, there’s a product called classroom, which is like, where the CEOs, Tim and John walk through a specific section of the Bible. And these are our long, these are hours long classes. So these are high production multicam, with six guests that are learning this content, there’s on screen graphics, there’s so much that goes behind these shoots. So there’s a video team that go that’s that does all of that. And there’s actually two individuals in that video team that are under that kind of, you would split between like brand and classrooms. So there’s higher higher. There’s like higher production videos are kind of even split away from the brand. There’s a whole art, there’s an art director and brand team who’s creating everything from like social media content to the annual which is like the annual report that gets released every year. So all internal brand, all of those things. Because of the illustration work that happens at the Bible project. There’s also dozens and dozens of like posters and print projects that are developed and mailed out and bought and all of those kinds of things. And then there is a audio team. And the audio team is mostly the podcast. However, because of the higher level production of the animated videos, and of classroom, audio is underneath brand. But at some point, I imagine there being kind of like a, like a head of audio for all things produced out of the Bible project that give them a full Sonic identity. So similar to like you see a logo. And you know that oh, that’s that’s Nike, that when you hear the NBC bells, you know what it is.

And when you hear those kinds of, you know, the Dome Dome from Netflix, you know exactly what that is. So really just the overarching, overarching kind of audio identity for the Bible project. That’s the audio team. And so those were the creative teams underneath the creative director that’s under the creative director role. And then my laterals, our producers who are scheduling, the video teams and the shoots, whether it be we need to work with, we need to work with contractors or not. My laterals are the marketing team who have a whole team of their own to help with the website. And market the content that’s being built within the within the brand team. We have the producer for classroom, we have the app, the head of development for the app that we’re meeting with, and those are all laterals that I meet with weekly to make sure that all of the requests that are needed are getting complete. Because this is an in house project. You can kind of try to predict you can predict pretty closely more than agency what you’re about to get done this year. And So how we structure and I became a huge fan of Sprint’s like creative sprints from agency world and because of good measure. And so the Bible project is happens to also be broken up, their workflow is broken up into sprints, where, for two weeks, we have a set amount of work. And then you the second week of those two weeks, you plan for the next two weeks, while you’re complete finishing out the work. Fridays, we made half days and you’re just presenting and making sure that you’re able to hit benchmarks. And Mondays or for Director levels are having meetings to make sure we’re kicking off sprints, and like a healthy way. And so on Mondays, I’m meeting with all my laterals. On Tuesdays, I’m meeting with all my my direct reports. And on Wednesday, through Fridays, I meet with the individual designers if they needed to, and work on the creative direction for marketing videos or material for future spreads so that by the time we get there, there’s actually like a creative direct direction written out. That was a mouthful. But there’s, there’s a general

Nate Disarro 46:06
take, right? I mean, these level the the amount of work the amount of people at different levels, getting the job done, it’s what it takes, and everybody’s role is valuable. Yeah, I’m curious. Talk me through the amount of hands on work you do as a creative director in that role, versus how much do you just have to translate the vision that you have or that the rest of ya has to get a project done?

Tres Garner 46:34
Great. Yeah. So this is actually this is. That’s what I have kind of tried. That’s what I’m, here’s a sneak peek. That’s what I’m kind of building my career around is the ability to communicate the creative work. I found early in my career that I was just really excited about making sure everyone understood what they were saying for the very first time. You know, in Houston, there’s and then the agency world, there’s often some like tech or oil and gas or maybe not necessarily creative people that you got you had to or nucular work right. So like creative, not necessarily creative people that were that you got to explain what it is you’re doing and why it’s so important. And I never like never saw that as something that was like a chore I was wildly interested in excited to explain to like explain a logo and a type a typographic palette and like a color palette, and what these colors means like logically, it was always entertaining and fun. So for me, whenever I work with these, whether it be contract with draw history or Bible project, I make sure that’s like really well known as like what I’m bringing as a part of like my process and how I work with a team. It’s very much like I using tools like loom, and otherwise to like, record my voice, walking through a specific project or specific feedback that can be replayed, rewatch at your own time. And that could be a voice recording through slack or that could be a loom. But a majority of my time is giving feedback and, and making sure that we’re like bringing in an overall tone for the brand. Here’s an example. The audio team of our project is incredible. The guy who runs it was at NPR, he is like way more talented than I am. I am not interested in telling him like a lot about how to do his job if I’m being honest, because he’s excellent at it. However, sometimes some things I will catch, not necessarily in the middle of the podcast, but those will be some things that I catch about the tone and like overall direction that the Bible project is heading for the year and audibly I think it would be interesting to continue to give the listeners cues about that as we release products, how can we do that? Now that’s on him, but I think it was on me to like communicate that level of like, of like this is what’s happening throughout the organization for the rest of the year. Here’s an idea I had and I think we can do that we can start to communicate that through audio as well. And now with him alongside him, we can build that out. The other Another example would be like through visual like the creative that kind of stuff which comes a little bit easier like giving feedback on Hey, this is what I think is working well. And this is maybe what I feel like should this this is like not landing there’s actually a specific example I can give is creating an internal video we set up a really we needed to do it relatively quickly. We set up a really beautiful there’s like a really beautiful like set had some crazy lights going on. So it looked like they were standing in this white gradient color void. It’s beautiful but It that look had kind of been done like 60% been done by us before, but for a dip talking about a different subject. And I just brought up the idea, I brought up the fact that like, Listen, I don’t necessarily think we can tear down the set and reshoot this, or like, but I think that moving forward, visually, when we’re create, if this is like a, this is a set, let’s make a standard for this set. What do we talk about when this is happening? This type of set gives me a very ethereal kind of like, open ended peaceful feel. So like maybe the videos that landed that need to be talking about, like what themes fall into that. And so overall, just trying to like, trying to articulate the kind of feeling and direction in place, the actual products into that, so that there’s like a more cohesive brand, visuals, visuals, and obviously audio through through the graphics, the videos, or the podcast. There was a moment where there was a art director got sick. And he was mainly he was the one mainly working on the annual project. So I actually straight up opened up InDesign and had to lay out some type for three days.

But that only happened that only happened once. So so that was so a long way to answer, it’s usually the skills that I’m trying to bring to an organization are the are the like creative structure, a creative process, sprint system, and like helping organize projects that way.

Nate Disarro 51:38
Which is such a valuable skill set to possess for you. But it’s also I think, being able to communicate in that way for people to understand I often tell people, I essentially have to be a translator in a sense, because I’m dealing with the CEO or somebody on a business side over here, that’s the client. Yeah. And then over here, I’ve got people that are incredibly talented at their their skills to create the products, but they don’t care about the business and the business doesn’t care about the creative. And somehow I’ve got to make both sides understand what’s happening, what’s valuable. And sort of translate for both sides to get the project done and make everybody happy along the way.

Tres Garner 52:21
And when it’s very much your role as well. It is yeah, and when that’s happening really quickly, like in in, in environments like good measure, that is super, super difficult. And I think that good measure 15 second setup, real quick, is essentially a nonprofit, mobile agency we sit we identify an agency in a city that we want to work with, identify a nonprofit in that city that needs creative work, and then we get their sign off to rebrand, produce them a brand video website strategy. And then we bring a we bring in top tier creatives around that city to volunteer their time, and 72 hours, we create a brand new identity for them. That has been started that we started that in 2017. And we’ve done seven events, to digital events and be able to partner with someone like my favorite agencies in the world. And whenever you are working with high capacity, talented designers, from brands like Squarespace and and all of these super high up agencies like basic or ya know, in New York or like basics in San Diego, but are fun size and Austin, wherever you are like these incredible agencies, you have to really you have to get really good at communicating and translating, like you said, because this stuff is moving very, very quickly. And you really get to have the opportunity to say, Isn’t it funny whenever you’re hearing the client and you’re like, okay, they’re making a lot of sense, but now I have to make this make sense to my team. Okay. And then you walk over there that that situation has happened so many times, that eventually you just stop getting embarrassed and you just realize like, Okay, this is a skill that needs to happen and I need to get better at

Nate Disarro 54:22
tell me how the idea of good measure came about.

Tres Garner 54:28
There was okay, here’s, here’s the secret. I’m not going to talk too quietly because I know my mic needs to be loud. The secret is, is that my buddy Alex Anderson and I were not super fulfilled with some of the work that we were doing towards the end of our agency life. He worked in an agency called black sheep in Houston. I worked at an agency called New Group. I recruited him to new group because I was like, Yo, you do great work. We need to do better strategy where your strategist come work here. He did. And then after about two years, he brought the idea to me, he helped describe a little bit with like, there’s some things called like hackathons, which are similar, like weekend long, little sprints, Chris rents. But he described the idea of like, describe the need, really, that there are hundreds of 1000s of nonprofits that operate in the United States with less than $50,000 a year, which is a barely livable, you know, wage for one person. And so we saw the need to like, Okay, if we could we know the value of a brand and of marketing and have a strategy. So like, if we can organize talented creatives and help them do the best work of their life, and only one weekend, we’re not going to take up your whole week, or, or send you emails two weeks later asking you to text us those logo files, just 72 hours, in and out and do it for a project that matters, that would be really, really helpful and really inspiring. And so that was the goal. And the very first one we did, we did invite only, so that we can make sure that we had like, you know, I think this is something we try to be careful with. But it’s like, we want the work to be really great. And we want everybody to feel like they’re growing and learning but also that the work is being done and they can count on each other. And so like the beginning, in the very beginning, we were like, it’s not gonna work. Honestly, if we get a bunch of like junior senior college students to volunteer, we need like top tier creative talent to like really help us nail this first one. So the first one was invite only the agencies in Houston reached out to the, like best designers, creatives I knew. And we knocked it out. And also shout out to new group who was the agency that I was working at who hosted the first event, and they were incredible. And, and yeah, so good measure now kind of lives on as this like 300 Plus community of super talented creatives and a Slack channel. And everyone post jobs are kind of like post ideas. And we we had our last event in February of 2020 or January of 2020. Imagining that in 2020, we would do five events across the United States. And we did that one, and then the old Pandy showed up. And and so we’ve done, we’ve done three digital events, which have gone off really well over the past few years. But it’s really about that in person experience. And so we are currently planning an event for sometime in the fall of this year. We’re just trying to find the right the right partner. Yeah. So you can find it at find good measure.com Like outlines our previous projects and kind of what our goals are. And it’s a really great site built by basic in San Diego. So it’s fun. So if you’d like cool websites, check it out.

Nate Disarro 57:57
That’s that’s a really cool idea. I mean, just the mindset behind it school. The way it affects nonprofits is cool. And ultimately, I mean, to your point, like, there’s so many great nonprofits doing so many good things. And, you know, they often need help in so many different ways. And they live on donations. And so when you look at at work like this, it just sort of falls into the category of donation. But it’s such a monumental donation that people don’t even realize, like, yeah, how valuable that is.

Tres Garner 58:29
It’s been huge. No, it’s been really exciting to see the work come out of it. We got to work with organizations that help individuals in prison, and we got to work with individuals that are in the political space, or we got to work with organizations who who furnish homes for for people that are getting out of being incarcerated. There’s like a massive statistic that shows that like, once someone leaves prison, and they get their first apartment, if their apartment feels like home and is furnished with things that they love, that they’re like 85% less likely to go out and do and they’ll be more likely to stay at home. And so like this organization, got furniture, and furnished and painted and like decorated, those individuals coming out of incarceration or homelessness, their apartments to get them to statistically stay out of that type of environment. And it was really beautiful to watch all of anyway. It’s really beautiful to watch all of these things kind of come to fruition and help out these teams. Sudo Yeah, it’s my favorite project. Yeah.

Nate Disarro 59:34
It sounds like it. Yeah, well, what I want to do now is I want to jump in and just kind of quick hit questions a little bit about you and sort of give give us a flavor of some of your personal preferences. But is there anything else that stands out to you about kind of the work you’re doing and what it’s like to be a creative director that you feel like is worth communicating that we haven’t touched on yet?

Tres Garner 59:56
I feel like right now my favorite, my favorite quote Oh, is that there’s that digital artist named people. He has this quote where he talks about like, you don’t have a lack of ideas, you have a lack of deadlines. That’s my current favorite quote right now. So I think the idea of like giving myself deadlines and a time of managing my own time has been very helpful.

Nate Disarro 1:00:19
So true, most creative people I know, can work really fast when they’re under pressure to get something done? Exactly. Yeah. And all you need is that that deadline creeping up on him, because most of us procrastinate anyway. And we get the work done in exactly the time when we’re like crap that’s due tomorrow. Exactly. I love that. That’s a great quote. All right. So what is your favorite book? Are you a reader? Or do you listen to audiobooks? What’s your favorite book?

Tres Garner 1:00:45
Yes, that’s a great question. So right now, right now I am a audiobook guy. I used to buy books like back in college, I bought a quite a few, quite a few books. But I, I run and I realized, like, oh, I can just replace music with raw with with audiobooks. And for an hour run, you can just knock out a book a week. So that’s been really great. And I had never done the whole, like, I missed the whole era of like, design leadership books. So I’ve been going back and reading a bunch of staples from like Seth Godin, and, and like Rich Dad, Poor Dad and and eaters eat last and stuff like that. So that’s kind of the ones that I’ve been in right now. There’s a book called, let me see if I can get the title that the author, there’s a book called The Making of a manager by Julie’s owl. And she was one of like, the first 30 employees of Facebook and stayed there until they had like, 400 employees. My I like it so much. One was because I just finished it in, like, two months ago. And the other one is because it is written from a woman’s perspective. And my wife is in the workforce. Still, she’s she still works. And she, we recently had a baby. And her career has just been really, really great and interesting and fascinating to me. And so like this book, helped, I gave it to my wife, and it’s been such a help to her. So I just love it so much. It’s really dope.

Nate Disarro 1:02:16
All right, moving right along. best piece of advice you’ve either given or received.

Tres Garner 1:02:24
I mean, I think I told my story, sometimes you just gotta cut into it. That’s good. So just get a cut in scatter, go for it. All right, what’s

Nate Disarro 1:02:33
a relatively new habit that you formed,

Tres Garner 1:02:37
both so both of these are not necessarily new, they’re like, within a year and a half. But I think sleeping and running are the two things that have like just become so essential to the, to the, to the process, sleeping, meaning like getting to bed on time and getting up early. My daughter wakes up, bless her heart at like 645 Seven. So I wake up at 545 to make sure I have like, some time in the morning. And then the running is just like such a great time. Like I said, listen to audiobooks or or just kind of think so both of those. I love

Nate Disarro 1:03:10
it. One thing I found is that when I’m listening to audiobooks or podcasts while exercising, time goes by so much faster than music.

Tres Garner 1:03:20
It really does. And if you go up to like 1.5 1.5 or 1.25 speed, the book goes, it’s just great. Yeah, you can you can knock it out.

Nate Disarro 1:03:29
That’s a necessity. And this will be a reminder for everybody listening to this podcast, I actually encourage you listen to it at 1.5. Yeah, mainly so that you can not listen to me talk and spend more time listening. You guys talk but okay, if you were to write a book, what would the title

Tres Garner 1:03:48
I have an idea for for this? It’s already it’s in the it’s happening. I’ve never said it. I don’t know if it’s a working title or not. But the idea is the will the current working title is the middle.

Nate Disarro 1:04:01
Interesting. Okay. Yeah.

Tres Garner 1:04:03
I’m intrigued. Yeah, okay, cool.

Nate Disarro 1:04:05
I can’t wait for it to come out.

Tres Garner 1:04:07
Next year, most of your time is spent in the middle. So you just have to, you have to like, usually you’ve started it. And it’s so you’re just been waiting for that. So usually, you’re in the middle. So it’s a lot of experience and like, thoughts around how to mentally and spiritually, like outlast the middle time that you spend most of your time in.

Nate Disarro 1:04:28
I like that I like the concept. I I’m a big believer in the 8020 rule. And I believe that you know, with regards to the middle, you’ve got 10% of the extreme on either side, or in your case, the beginning and end of anything. And then 80% of it is the middle. So I think it’s yeah, it’s an interesting parallel there. Yeah. What’s the best thing you’ve bought in the last year for $100 or less,

Tres Garner 1:04:53
just as organized as my like Dropbox is my garage and have a bunch of tools and stuff and so I got to labeler For $18, and I’ve labeled my entire toolbox and it is just magnificent.

Nate Disarro 1:05:07
So that’s it. That might be the most unique one. I like it though. That’s that’s cool. The previous podcast interview, it was a juicer. So I’m getting Oh, nice. Like, Christmas list knocked out,

Tres Garner 1:05:22
you gotta get the one that stamped the embosses the letters, I’m not talking about one of the ones that prints like you type it in and like a little keyboard and then it prints out like a little strip. The Sticky Strip. No, no, this is like a little thick 10 plastic polymer mix strip that it embosses the letters into and it just feels like very World War Two. And when you label it, you’re like, I’m labeling this forever. I’m not just like labeling my pantry. That is the difference and it’s important.

Nate Disarro 1:05:53
Yeah, yeah,

Tres Garner 1:05:54
this is the items name forever.

Nate Disarro 1:05:56
That’s good. Yeah, my dad had one of those. It was white and I think the letters were red and boss and yeah, yeah, have to turn each letter and then hold the trigger and it would Yep. You know,

Tres Garner 1:06:05
that’s it. $18 on Amazon. Do it.

Nate Disarro 1:06:09
Alright, favorite artist or musician?

Tres Garner 1:06:12
Ooh, okay. Um my favorite artists is easy. I’m a painter members like that’s what I went to school for started going to school for so sites wobbly. He also happens to have one of the largest like solo open galleries in Houston. So you can go see his work all the time. He is the artists that every time when you will see his work. You say like, Oh, I get my toddler could do that. That’s the point. His work is just scribbles and a disaster. Some of it is kind of like provocative maybe if you look too close, but the idea, the work itself, I think is like super strong, and I love it. So that would be my favorite painter. And favorite musician, right now. To have again, I have a two year old so I’m, I’m all up in that mo Juana and Coco. And listening to like, the most ridiculous, ridiculous things right now. Um, I don’t know I’ve been on I’ve been back on an r&b kick. So I’ve been listening to CES I saw that her album came out like her. Her last album came out like five years ago. So I’ve just been in RVing kick the past like two weeks. That’s where I’m at.

Nate Disarro 1:07:25
Nice. Yeah. Nice. I like it. All right. And then next restaurant you go to what’s your favorite food? Where are you gonna go? You throw down a burger kind of guy. Are you a salmon salad fan?

Tres Garner 1:07:40
Yeah, I am. Uh huh. Yeah, so it’s it’s sushi. It’s definitely like ramen or sushi. For right right now. There’s a fast food kind of like, Vietnamese fusion place called roo stars. That’s like more like I said more quick. But agents fire. That’s really great. If I’m feeling super fancy, and I want to treat myself to a cute little date. There’s a place called Gucci. And it’s a spot in Houston. It’s super good. It’s pretty expensive. It’s you know, it can get expensive, but sushi is impeccable. So that’s where I’ve been. I’ve been going go into a few times. It’s delicious. Yeah,

Nate Disarro 1:08:17
love it. Next time I’m in Houston. I’ll check it out for sure. I love it. Awesome. Tres. This has been fun, man. I appreciate it. Where can people check you out? See your work? Find out what yeah,

Tres Garner 1:08:30
like a good designer. My website is always in flux. But you can totally go there. It’s tresgarner.com. And you can also follow me on all socials which are at trace Garner and trace is spelt like dress like number three TR e s Garner gr ner. So that’s Tres Garner anything and then tracegarner.com. And yeah, follow me or don’t or just reach out. I want to talk to you. Alright, that’s it.

Nate Disarro 1:08:59
I love it. Thanks so much, man. Really appreciate it.

Tres Garner 1:09:02
I appreciate it, Nate. Thanks so much.

Nate Disarro 1:09:05
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