Kevin Shalin 0:00
I love making dumplings. I love eating dumplings. I love all Chinese food. But if if I’ve got a great recipe I make it home I’ve made for last 20 years. I’m a dumpling… I tell ya, I’m a dumpling whore.

Nate Disarro 0:10
hey, it’s Nate Disarro and welcome to titans of industry, the podcast where I talk to industry leaders and innovators who are at the top of their game and leading the pack in their fields, uncovering some of the best stories in today’s business landscape. In this episode, I speak with Kevin Shalin, food reviewer and blogger for The Mighty Rib. He’s a beloved icon in the Little Rock restaurant scene and prides himself on an authentic unbiased chronicles of local cuisine. His work has been featured in publications like Only in Arkansas, Arkansas Times and AY magazine. The Mighty Rib Facebook page has an estimated monthly reach of about half a million viewers. Kevin talks to us about how he transformed his hobby into a career. He built trust amongst a digital audience and why he chooses to spotlight restaurants and their staff in his writing, rather than himself. Now let’s get to the episode. But before we do, let’s talk about content, strategy and Video for marketing your business. Our team at Content Titan is committed to great storytelling, no matter what industry you’re in. It’s crucial to engage, entertain, inform and captivate your audience. And video is the best way to do it. Having worked with people and organizations of all shapes and sizes, our team has the experience to deliver the right content at the right price. We are easy to do business with and we know how to get you results. Visit content titan.co to learn more. Now, here’s the episode with Kevin shaylen. Kevin, thanks, man, I appreciate you jumping in and hanging out with us on the podcast for the day. You’ve got a wildly popular food blog social media accounts. I kind of just want to start with with how the heck did you get into that world?

Kevin Shalin 2:02
I was living in Houston is about 12 years ago now. And I was a high school teacher. Married to children looking for kind of a hobby I used to be a writer and college sports writer in Texas, and I wanted to kind of scratch that writing itch again. And figured you know, I think I can I can write about food every day. I knew nothing about food other than I love to eat. And that was enough at the beginning. And I started my blog, the mighty rib. In about six months after that I got a freelance gig with the Houston press. And that’s when really things took off for me where I started doing anything and everything that they any assignment that they had. And, you know, restaurant openings, advance wine tastings, anything that the editor had on on her desk, and she had a team of writers there. And I jumped on just about everything, and really loved it and enjoyed it. And the blog started for it ran for about a year in Houston. And then my family, we moved to Boston for another year, my wife finished her training, she’s a physician. So we spent one year in Boston, I did the same thing, I really dove into the Boston scene because I didn’t know if I was going to be there for a year or the rest of my life. So I was like, if I’m gonna be here, I’m gonna I’m gonna really get to know the town. And I did. And then she, my wife got an interview at UAMS. And we came down here and we’ve been here 10 years.

Nate Disarro 3:32
Very cool. I’ve been here 10 years as well. So I guess

Kevin Shalin 3:35
2012 2012 We got here, right around this time, you know, it was hot out and July and June, July, right into the June end of June is when we got here. And I knew nothing about Little Rock. Absolutely nothing new. No one had no friends here. And to think that I’d be sitting here right now, as you know, entrenched into this community as I am, well, I never thought it would happen.

Nate Disarro 4:02
Well, it’s interesting because you know, the power of words and especially the power of our stomach. So, you know, when I think about what life is all about, in some regards, it’s you know, we work so that we can go do things like eat at Fun restaurants and enjoy wine tastings and things like that. And you kind of get to do that as a both a passion and sort of a job in a sense. Yeah. So it’s kind of the perfect job in my mind. Do you see it that way?

Kevin Shalin 4:28
I it is, you know I started is it was a hobby and it’s kind of developed into and morphed into this really cool job. I don’t monetize anything with the mighty rib, my personal blog, but I am a freelance food writer. And over the years I’ve written for just about every publication in this area, some for lengthy periods of time, like only an arkansas.com, who I still write for been writing for them for about seven years. I was a food editor for a while magazine for a cup Well, yours so and you know, in just wrote an article for Arkansas times that came out yesterday. So, you know, you kind of you work your way around and just keep getting the word out there.

Nate Disarro 5:11
Which is a really interesting concept because, you know, being in the creative world and the content world, obviously, we get commissioned to do a lot of different projects that people hire us to do. But the really fun ones are the ones that nobody hires us to do. It’s just we go out, we do it, because it’s something we want to do. It’s our passion and and you’ve built quite the loyal following people that take what you say to heart. And do you feel the pressure of that within the hobby side of it? Or do you just still see it as something fun? And it’s just whatever you want to do? You do?

Kevin Shalin 5:46
It’s a balance. Without a doubt, yes, it is fun to me. But I take what I do very seriously it and I try to be as professional as I can. Because the bottom line is that words matter. I’ve always said that. And when you put words on a public forum, any public forum, people see them, and they can have a positive impact or a tremendously negative impact. And I want the reader to know that I’m genuine, and then I care. And but they can also trust my opinion, no matter what, restaurants don’t don’t pay me to show up. They don’t I don’t get any freebies. You know, like I said, the blog isn’t monetized, there’s no advertising. So it is very important to me that the reader trust me, it’s it is of the utmost importance to me, that they trust what I’m saying. And I also try to be as respectful as I can to the restaurant, to the people in the industry, to give my honest opinion, but also to do it in a manner that I’m not offending anyone, and just being respectful.

Nate Disarro 6:52
I love it. Yeah. Let’s talk about the nature of blogging, social media, how it all kind of works these days, because I’m sure over the last 10 years, it’s changed and more of how you connect to your audience. You know, I’ll say back in the day blogging was, you have some sort of website, and you write a post, you maybe put a couple pictures, and you kind of find ways to get that out to people. And now, the blog is almost secondary, I would think, to the social media content. So how do you define blogging right now versus what it was?

Kevin Shalin 7:27
But that’s an excellent question. I think that’s what I think about all the time, because when I started 12 years ago, you’re right, first thing I did was jump on online and find a blogger site that was free that I could start my website. And I wrote every single day, I had an entry every single day. And if you go on my actual site, now the mighty rev.com, I haven’t posted something in months and months, you know, it has changed significantly, it is all about short snippets, it’s about videos, it you know, the reader does not have a very long attention span anymore. podcasts have taken over. So as someone who was, quote, you know, quote, unquote, a blogger, I think the main thing is you have to if you want to stay relevant, you have to keep adapting, and know what your audience wants. One of the things that I realized early on, and this has just gotten more and more the case is that I keep my writing short and concise. I don’t, you know, I think the reader wants to know, they want to trust me, and if they trust me, they don’t need 1000 words to prove that they can trust me. You know, they just need to know, do I need to go to that restaurant, and I’ll tell them, this is a place you need to go to the rest is up to you. I don’t want to get in the way, it’s up to you to figure out what exactly you like about that place. And you form your own opinions. But I think the reader can trust me when I when I say something, and they’re not going to get bogged down with a bunch of words and information. So I think it’s just hast as you probably know, it just has to get more and more concise. And now videos have taken over. So I’m trying to like adjust and adapt and get in that world. You know, reels on Instagram are huge. And I still haven’t made the Tiktok plunge, but, you know, I’m about to be 45 these things, and I don’t want to these things are a little more difficult for someone not a young guy anymore. Well,

Nate Disarro 9:22
that’s a great point. And it’s really interesting, though, because I talk to our clients all the time, you know, ultimately, the goal isn’t just make a piece of content, it’s really find your audience and communicate to them where they’re at. And just like, you know, when we were growing up, we’d watch cable television, and we’d watch Nickelodeon or Disney Channel or whatever and then it moved into ESPN and we’re changing the channel based on our interests. And I think a lot of people are still trying to grasp the idea that platforms are now kind of like channels and accounts are shows within those channels. Right. So it’s it’s intuitive, but It’s also kind of effort, it takes effort to make that change and be willing to move from posting a blog every day to now building that same following or that same audience and moving them to a different channel. Did you see that challenge happen? Or did it just naturally occur?

Kevin Shalin 10:18
Oh, I saw it happen. Yeah, without a doubt, it wasn’t something that was so natural. But when you make some excellent points there, and one of the things that that really stands out for me that I see that I feel like bloggers make a mistake with and or influencers, whatever you want to call them, is, I feel like they make themselves the focal point. And you know, what, what I do, the focal point is the restaurant is the employees. It’s the art community. I’m part of that. But I never want to make my face the focal point. And what I find is, well, that’s for good reasons on a variety of levels. But from what I find is, when I’m following people, I see them just putting their face in front of the camera constantly, as the reader that might hold up for a while, but you’re gonna get tired of it, because the thoughts go into our head, like, why is this all about them. I mean, I put my face in front of my blog, but I do it sporadically. Because I know that the reader will get tired of that. And they need to know that it isn’t about me, it’s about my voice and my opinions. And I interject it with our interaction with the readers. But I am not the centerpiece of the blog. And I feel like that is just a tremendous mistake that that people make nowadays. Because, you know, in actuality, they just want to see themselves in front of a camera. And I think that is a mistake, in large part.

Nate Disarro 11:44
I couldn’t agree with you more. One of the things that we practice around here, and I talk to people about all the time, there’s an author by the name of Donald Miller, I don’t know if you’ve heard of him, but he’s been around for quite a while. And several years ago, he wrote a book called Story brand. And it’s really kind of this systematic approach to creating narrative storytelling, for brands, from a marketing perspective, but really, it works for everybody. And the principal point that he talks about from a marketing perspective is the brand is not the hero of the story, the brand should be the guide, it should be the one that helps your consumer, your viewer, your customer, get from the ordinary, average everyday person to become the hero that they want to be in their own life. And that’s exactly what you’re talking about. You aren’t the hero, you’re the guy that gets that viewer from wondering where to eat tomorrow, to having the answer and telling their friends, hey, let’s go here. And then ultimately being the hero of that story, because they followed your advice.

Kevin Shalin 12:54
Yeah, and there’s so many layers to it, when you look at food. And that was the thing that was so fascinating to me from day one is all these different things that I can do that yeah, food is is right there in the Senate, front and center. But, you know, there are so many other avenues. I’ve changed, you know, quite a bit through the years where I was so excited about the food. Now, I’m so excited about telling people about the food, that’s what gets me excited. I’m I really love featuring people in the industry, that that gives me a lot of joy. And I think that you know, when you think of it on a larger scale, I just love playing this part, my part in in building helped build our food community here in Little Rock, Central Arkansas, wherever you want to call it. Even Arkansas in general, because I’ve been getting out and about and throughout the state. So there’s just so many layers to this. And that’s what has has been so appealing to me all these years. And in changing it up. I think you’ve got to be able to adapt not only in like, what type of mediums Am I using, but also your message, you know, I don’t want to get too sticky. I don’t want to be this guy that’s always trying to crack a joke. But I think humor is a big part of what I do. You know, some some days it calls for me being serious. If a restaurant closes, I’m not going to have some little funny joke about it. So I think the reader when you’re constantly adapting and then changing your message, it keeps the interest the reader interested.

Nate Disarro 14:35
One of the things I talked about a lot as well as is the idea of human to human connection. And anything any of us do when we put a piece of content out into the world. It’s not to interact with a dog or a horse or a rock or a house or a car. It’s to interact with another human. Do you see any challenges trying to do that when you’re talking about food and showing food and restaurants? So I mean, like you mentioned, the goal, I think for you is to show the people behind it, but But ultimately, when I look at your Instagram account, it’s photos of food. So how do you use that to connect on a human level?

Kevin Shalin 15:14
Well, from day one, I, sometimes I look back and my first post on the blog interaction was, was what I wanted to focus on, I really enjoy that interaction. It is one of the reasons why for you know, for better or worse, Facebook is where I really excel. I liked that platform, it allows folks to comment, it allows me to comment back to have that conversation. And but also to let people know that even when we’re having our little conversation in this bigger, you know, bigger thread that be responsible, going back to what we talked about being responsible about what you’re posting, because especially now that I’ve been here a while I have a following restaurant tours, watch everything, they want to know what’s going on, they follow the blog, and when they see someone comment that you know it, it hits home with them. And I I think what I’m one of the things I’m most proud about is I feel like that interaction has gotten a lot more professional, more that you’re always going to have your trolls, you’re always going to have people that are that just want to be negative for the sake of being negative. But I really feel like that has declined through the years. And I think people realize like, this is a platform where they can air their opinions, voice their opinions, but do so in a manner that’s going to be beneficial. I’m all for constructive criticism. I’m all for people showing up and speaking their mind. But you can choose your words wisely and still get your point across. And I think that’s one of the things I do when I’m critiquing restaurants, I can let that reader know, like this place, you know, stay away from that dish, or it was an off night, and I don’t have to bash the restaurant. So going back to the interaction, I just feel like it’s important that, you know, we’re not I’m not friends with many of the readers, but I feel like they know me. And I know a lot of them. You know, I know most of the people that comment is because I’m I’m fully invested in it, and I enjoy it.

Nate Disarro 17:22
Which brings up a whole other piece of the conversation that you know, you’re talking about changing platforms and everything else. Now we’ve got the metaverse, right, where people kind of interact on a digital level and they never interact in human capacities. Yeah. Do you see that becoming a way to have the blog kind of connect to more people,

Kevin Shalin 17:43
you know, I hope not. If I write something, eventually I’m gonna have to face the music. If I write something about a restaurant, or an owner, eventually I’m gonna run into that person in Kroger, you know, and I’ve got to be able to stand by stand behind my words and not not worry about their their reaction when they think because I’m, I’m comfortable with what, what I think and I think that connection, that human connection is very important, especially in a town, the size of Little Rock, which is something that has always been appealing to me, I love the size of this town. I call it a town because you know, when you grew up in Houston, Texas, most of your life, you know, they have suburbs that are 10 times the size of Little Rock. I love, love, love and in Little Rock, I love living in Little Rock because I can see when I post something, I can see it helping change the community that in Houston. And when I was in Boston, it’s hard to see that. So I want to be able to connect with the audience, I don’t want to just hide behind a computer screen, I want them to know that I’m a real human being that cares. You know, I that personal connection is very important to me.

Nate Disarro 19:00
Alright, let’s talk a little bit about being kind of the other side of it, the professional food writer that gets paid to write? Do you have to switch one side of your brain off and switch the other one on to kind of remember that you’re doing now a commissioned gig as opposed to the side hobby? Is there a difference in the way you communicate? Or is it the same person the same message, you just draw a line down the channel that it’s being distributed on?

Kevin Shalin 19:26
It really, I think it varies from publication to publication. I feel like when I write something about a paid gig, I’ll probably write it. I’ll probably review it three or four or five times at least edit it. Make sure it’s you know, the grammar is is on point. And when I’m doing something for the mighty rib, it’s just kind of it’s more conversational, you know, and I like both of them. I like both ways, and I’m glad I can um Fortunate enough to do both things. But it really depends. And you get a feel for what the editor wants, I’ll go back to the only an arkansas.com. Like I’ve been writing for them, or six, seven years now. And I feel like my writing has adapted to being more conversational, a little less, a little more informal, which has always made me more comfortable. But, you know, I’ve done a couple pieces this year for the local palette, which is big regional magazine, and the Southeast here. And, you know, it’s just a different style, I want to be as professional and structured as I can. And, you know, if I ended up doing more pieces for them, maybe it’ll it’ll will allow me to be a little more of who I am, if that makes sense.

Nate Disarro 20:50
Yeah, of course. Alright, so you’ve got this weight of people listening to what you say and taking it with you. But then that also provides another interesting dynamic to your influence. And that’s your ability to do things with nonprofits and other organizations that help people who don’t have the luxury of going out to eat. So talk to me a little bit about some of the other things that you’re involved in. And kind of how you got connected.

Kevin Shalin 21:17
One of the things I’ve been working striving for last few years is to get my platform to a level where I know I’m reaching a lot of people and to use that now, to do some good beyond just getting people to go into a restaurant or to buy this coffee, or what have you or support a cottage Baker, I really want to start shifting it to getting involved in some nonprofits. Last few couple of years, I’ve been working with the Arkansas Hunger Relief Alliance, who they have their big event tonight, by the way, serving up solutions give a little plug for that. And I just in the last couple of months have gotten involved with the rollin mcdonald house local chapter. And, and, yeah, I want to focus on either kids are fighting hunger or combination of both. And it’s just really nice now to have the platform that when I post something, I can get some people on board or I can get a company to donate something. Whereas I’m not like, begging them to do it. And I’m not like, Oh, this is who I am, you know, this is what I do. You know, I don’t have to explain myself as much anymore, that makes such a big difference. And I don’t get caught up in the numbers. And like, you know, like, how many people I have how many Facebook followers or Instagram. But it is, it is important to me now that I’ve reached a stage and I am part of this community. And I can make an impact in areas I you know, if I’m want to get passionate about nonprofit work, I can do that now. And I can feel comfortable about it. And, and that is so enjoyable for me and so rewarding,

Nate Disarro 23:00
a little bit. What’s the ultimate, sort of when you lay down at night? What runs through your mind and what a successful day looks like?

Kevin Shalin 23:12
I always think like, did I do at least one thing that I help somebody in some manner can be tiny. Someone reached out to me last week, and she was looking for a bartender job. And part of me just wanted to gloss over it and say just there’s just one person that is looking for a bartender job. I’m not going to put a post out that that says anybody hiring for a bartender job, I’ve done things like that, but didn’t want to do it. And, and then a day or two went by and I said you know, I need to like make an effort here. Because this could really help somebody. And I saw just a random person who I follow in the industry. She posted a job a bartending job. I knew it was a good bartending job. So I screenshotted it, I actually reached out to the person. And I said, I think this is a good position, I think you should go for it. And she’s like, thank you. I didn’t hear back from her for a week. Well, she replied yesterday and said, I got the job. I just want to thank you. I mean, something like that is just like as good as it gets for me. And if I can do like one thing like that a day, where I can feel it’s like kind of rewarding and I can feel good about things. That really is my goal. I mean, I don’t I don’t look at it. Anything beyond that. If if I can post about some donuts, and someone tells me the week after, man there was there was 30 people waiting in line. I mean what how does it get any better than that? I mean, that’s why I do what I do. And I enjoy that it’s very rewarding for me. And that’s really all I go about, you know, just trying to figure out How can I do some good? And how can I keep changing it up? And how can I do a variety of things, I do these big dinners, I did my first one until over two years, because of COVID, I stopped doing them, where I host, usually anywhere from 50 to 75 people. And we rotate every about every six weeks, I choose a restaurant. And I say I all I tell the restaurant is I want you to create a four or five course menu, it’s got to be creative, it’s got to be something different, and have fun with it. And I’ll make sure 50 to 75 people are there, I’ll collect all the money you don’t have to worry about all you have to worry about is hosting us is cooking that food. And chefs get usually get pretty excited about that, because they’re tired of cooking the same thing. And it’s just it’s just a wonderful event. And those are the things that I enjoyed doing, if I can, if I can string together, six or seven of those things at once, where I’m, I’m thinking about him and doing a podcast like this, those are the things that really excite me. And, you know, if I was just sitting down and doing the same thing over and over again, I’d get I get tired of it. I really like mixing it up. And it’s just it’s so enjoyable.

Nate Disarro 26:11
I love that. And that that’s truly the power of a social networking and B influence. And thankfully you use it for for good, you know, because I think there’s a lot of people out there that take advantage of that influence and don’t necessarily do evil things with it. But they don’t do anything good with it. Yeah. I want to talk a little bit more about these, these kind of group dinners, especially, like you said, for two years, we were kind of locked down on doing fun things like that, but also community changing things. Because I’ve always been a big believer that, you know, community and life happens over food. And there’s plenty of other experiences that we do. But nothing really gives us the opportunity to build relationships create communal bonds, like having a meal together. So when you have these dinners, is it the same 5075 People coming every time? Or are you creating new pockets of people that now have something in common together?

Kevin Shalin 27:09
Well, for this the most recent one, I have a private group of about 150 people that they a lot of these folks come to my dinners, but I always post it on my blog, anyone can show up. But through the years, you know, I would say at least 75% of the people attending they’re regulars. One of the reasons is it sells out these dinners sell out in about 10 minutes. And so they know like if I want to take it I gotta jump on it. But I really love when someone new shows up because that can get kind of get them immersed in what what I’m doing and what we’re trying to create. And food is the great unifier I know that sounds kind of cliche and sappy but it’s true. It’s it’s it’s always appealed to me. And I’ll give you an example like so the first dinner we did coming back from COVID. Last Sunday is at Bruton barley, one of my favorite new restaurants, I think it’s one of the better restaurants in this area period, not just new. And we had 52 people there. It could have been bigger, but I just don’t want it to be bigger it gets you lose that intimacy. And it was great. You know, they went above and beyond we had beer parents, we had, you know, we had the whole restaurant it was it was on a Sunday when the restaurants closed. So we had it was a you know, private affair. And the food was great. And that’s, that’s wonderful. But the highlight for me of that evening is the chef is talking about each course. And at the end of the night, I get up and I thank the chef, and I thank everyone for being there. And this chef, Chef, Brian McFadden, he brought out his entire crew that worked that night. And he didn’t just get up there and say, Hey, guys, great job. Everyone give him around. He told stories. And it allowed the diners to really connect with the restaurant in a way that you just can’t, when you when you walk into a place on a typical night. And to see that these are these are humans. And they care and it is a very difficult thing to pull off a four or five course dinner. It’s not just the food just shows up and think that’s it. Planning hours and hours of planning execution, getting the right ingredients hoping the ingredients get delivered properly, especially nowadays. So I think it was very important for the diners to see that and in to make that impact and intim to just have a better understanding of, of what it’s like when they go out to eat and when they see the humans behind it when they hear the stories. Maybe there’ll be a little less likely to complain on social media or and do it in a man complaint in a manner that’s unprofessional. So that is, that is a really good part of these dinners is yes, bringing people together, but also letting them see the other side kind of behind the curtain.

Nate Disarro 30:12
That wraps up basically my entire life, passion, all in one thing, which is great storytelling, human human connection and good food. And I’m getting more and more jealous of the fact you get to do this all the time. So we may have to just change directions completely, Scott. But I think that’s amazing. And I think, first of all, I need to get in this group. So I can

Kevin Shalin 30:39
do that right after the interview.

Nate Disarro 30:42
But, but I think there’s so much to that, because there’s, there’s a fine line between sort of complaining and critiquing, right, and we complain about something because we don’t have a connection to the person or the entity, we just think they should have done better. We critique when they we know the story, and we know they can do better, and maybe they missed the mark. Yep. And I think it’s really interesting that essentially, that that helps change a culture because, I mean, in my own world, when people complain about the work we do, as opposed to critique it with, with construction, you know, constructive criticism. It sort of deflates you a little bit and makes you not want to do it as much. But when people know the story, and they know the heart behind you, and they give you almost more encouragement that you can do better, or you can maybe add more salt, not as much. So whatever, that that inflates my balloon and makes me feel more empowered, that you know what, they’re right, I can do better, I should do better, they deserve better. And they meant that in the best way possible. In that regard. Do you feel like when you post something, or when you put a story out, it motivates people to do better? Do you feel like sometimes it sort of takes the wind out of their sails?

Kevin Shalin 31:58
I really hope it does. I hope it motivates people to do better. And you know, we spent a lot of this conversation talking, focusing on the reader. But you know, the the respect, I’m trying to earn the respect of the restaurant tours to, I want them to respect what I’m doing. Because that means if if I write something, they’ll read and go, You know what, I kind of respect this guy, maybe he’s right, rather than than them, then then thinking, Oh, this is some guy that’s looking to get clicks. And this is why He said this negative thing. And I don’t know, that takes years. That takes years. And I’m sure there’s still chefs and restaurant tours out there that see my name pop up and go look this guy. And that’s just part of it. You know, I get that. But I think for the most part, I want them to respect me, that doesn’t mean they have to agree with me, that doesn’t have to mean they have to like what I’m saying. But the restaurant tours, to me that really get it are the ones that can accept the the constructive criticism and go you know what, all right, I get it. Thank you for pointing that out. I know you’re not looking to bash me. Because I’m not. I hate writing negative things. Nothing makes me more exciting, excited than when I go out and I eat a piece of pizza. That is amazing. And I can’t wait to get in my car, drive home, click my thoughts and post about it. That makes me that gets me very excited. If I eat a terrible meal, the audience deserves to know about it in some form, but I’m not like relishing in it. And I just I just think it’s important that there we have this mutual respect, not just from me in the reader, but me in the restaurant tour and our whole community. All three of us, me the reader the restaurant tour, we have to be going back and forth. And I really hope that’s something. I think that’s something people say, I really hope it is. And it is top priority. For me. It is very important.

Nate Disarro 33:54
That’s awesome. What’s the biggest challenge you face every day? What’s the thing that you’re like, man? I wish I didn’t have to deal with this piece of it?

Kevin Shalin 34:03
Well, that’s a good question. You know, I don’t like dealing with some of the trolls. It’s very easy to respond quickly and negatively to them. And sometimes I’ll have something written up. And before I push, send, I’ll erase it. Always take the high road always be professional. That’s taken me years to fine tune. I’ve had some moments that looking back. I wish I could have changed and I could have done better. But you can’t you can’t take back the past. You know only can do only can try to do as as good as you can in the moment. And I keep going back to that word professional. It’s just it’s it’s a constant work in progress to to do your best you can to be a leader. I feel like I can be a leader in In this food community and to be a leader, you’ve got to, you know, conduct yourself in a manner that people can respect and, and if you, you know, fly off the handle, it’s easy to do that, no one’s gonna win, I’m going to end up looking bad in the long term. And the restaurant looked bad, and no one wins in that in that. So the things that I don’t like about it, that’s, that is, it’s interesting, because if I don’t like something, I just stopped doing it. That’s the beauty when there’s no money involved, I’m only working on things I want to do, I’m sitting in front of you right now, because I’m excited to do this, you know, like, I’m going to do exactly what I want to do. And if I don’t feel comfortable with it, I’ll move on to something else.

Nate Disarro 35:45
That’s great perspective. And, you know, I think, you know, in some regard, you’re lucky to be in that position, but in others, you’ve put yourself there on purpose. And I think that’s really awesome that you’ve, you’ve been able to kind of get to the point, at least, you know, and it’s like that for all of us. It’s a kind of constant state of growing and maturing in different areas. But especially I think, with social media, because people can hide behind it. You know, even though their name may be attached to a comment, and you want to fire back at him because they were troll or they were saying something rude or wrong. taking the high road is always the safe, and better thing to do.

Kevin Shalin 36:21
Yeah, when you get involved with with people online, in the moment, it might feel great. But I always tell myself, when I wake up tomorrow Am I got to be proud of that, that interaction. So any and again, seven, eight years ago, I wasn’t like this, I’ve really changed through the years. It’s just not worth it. And in the end, you just want to, you want to try to be as positive as you can, because you’re trying to lift people up. But, you know, going back to the social media angle, and I, I think people, they just want instant success. Everything we’re talking about today has taken years and years to develop. It’s grown organically. And so many bloggers influencers phase out, because they think they’re going to start something, and that every like 1000s and 1000s of people are going to follow them and every now and then that happens. But for the most part, it takes years of just grinding and grinding. And seven, no one knew who I was, for the first five or six years I lived in the five years, no one knew who I was, you certainly didn’t, no one knew I wouldn’t be doing podcast, it takes work and work to be able to just have the opportunity to be sitting and have a conversation with you. I never take that for granted. And anytime someone reaches out to me with help. I always remember when I was at that stage, and Houston, and I would reach out to these big food writers that I was nervous about contacting and you know what, they never, never responded, they never helped. And I never forgot that. And I try my very best if anyone has a question anything that I respond in a timely manner and that that’s important to me.

Nate Disarro 38:08
Well, that’s a perfect segue into my next question, which is essentially, you know, I love to be able to provide tips and tricks for people who may be interested in starting their own platform or their own sort of side channel. If, if you were having to start today from square one, what would be your best advice,

Kevin Shalin 38:26
pick something, pick a channel that you really connect with and that you feel comfortable with? And see where it blossoms from there. And don’t let people make fun of you. Yeah, I’m sure people still make fun of me like man, Facebook is for dinosaurs? Well, we’re reaching a lot of people. And I’m proud of that. And that’s where I feel comfortable with. Do I wish I at times felt more comfortable on Instagram? Yeah, I mean, I, I’m on Instagram, and I just don’t connect with it. So my advice would be finding an avenue and medium that you really are comfortable with getting your voice across to the audience. And develop that and see where it goes. And and from that point. Also, just immerse yourself, do as many different things as you can. And some of them you’re going to hate something, you’re going to love something, you’re going to look back and go I cannot believe I did that half the things I did 10 years ago, I look back. Why did I waste my time doing that, but you’re just building you’re building. And that’s what I would encourage folks to do. Do something you really love. Do it. For the enjoyment. Don’t do it for the appeal of reaching a lot of people. Again, the first year I did my blog, I reached like literally four people. Seriously. I didn’t care because I was I was writing. I was I was going to these events, and that’s all that mattered to me. And everything else came eventually because I stuck with it and so many people don’t stick with it. They do it for about four or five months. Oh I don’t have a fight. 1000 followers what? I thought this was the internet. I thought I could snap my fingers. No, you gotta grind. And. And that grind also has to be kind of fun, too. That helps. So I love

Nate Disarro 40:11
the mentality that an overnight success started five years ago. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, people.

Kevin Shalin 40:19
I mean, you got all these followers yet that if I could show I’ll show you the stats of how long it took. It took me to build that basically like 10 people a day. That’s if you’re fortunate. And, again, that just takes a tremendous commitment. It’s, it’s the interactions going back and forth. It’s answering people taking that time. It’s not work to me, I really enjoy it. And then so many things come from that, writing gigs, freelance gigs, interviews, you know, dinner events, just just just so many layers to it. And it’s constantly changing. And that’s what just kind of keeps you motivated.

Nate Disarro 40:59
So we’ll talk a little bit about the Arkansas food scene. You know, I’m fortunate I get to travel quite a bit. Sure you’ve been around, you know, Houston, great foodie town. Now Boston’s got great places to eat. I was just in Charleston, amazing food in Charleston, Italy. I mean, you know, like, I’m very fortunate that I don’t go too long without being around great restaurants. And like we said earlier, we both been here for about 10 years, and actually the food scene change here quite a bit in those 10 years. Time talk to me a little about the comparison of the Central Arkansas food scene to you know, Boston, Houston, other places like what do you see from a quality perspective or unique atmosphere perspective?

Kevin Shalin 41:44
Yeah. So again, you gotta go back to the size. So we’re, we’re a small town 200,000 in the area, you know, six 700,000. I think if you make a decision to live someplace, you need to embrace it and see, and see all the wonderful things you because you chose to live there for a reason. That’s the way I kind of went into with Little Rock. But for our size, I think we’re doing pretty darn well. Honestly, there is a lot to be proud of, in our food scene here. The thing that really stands out from to me is you’ve got these group of restaurants let’s maybe 10 or 15 of them that have been around for 30 plus years, the trio’s the brave News of the World, The Black Angus, which I just popped in for lunch yesterday, faded rose dozy place, these places are still as popular as ever. And when I write about them on the blog, people still go crazy for these places. And I love that. I think it’s just an important to go crazy over a place that has been open for two years as it is new kid on the block that gets all the pub everyone’s you know, this is this, and this is that. And that’s great. I love reporting on it all. But I’ve always really been impressed with our food community with how they’ve embraced these restaurants that have been here for a long time. And these restaurants, the reason they are still in existence is is one word, it’s consistency. trios is not reinventing the wheel, they’re not going to be confused with upscale fine dining. But I’ve never had a bad meal there. I’ve never had a bad meal at the pantry. I’ve eaten at the pantry. I don’t know, probably 100 times in my 10 years, never had a bad meal there. I had bad meals everywhere. And their consistency that they show is why they are so embraced by our community. I love that. But I love our new restaurants. I wish we had more chef driven places. If I had to be completely honest, I feel like there is this shift now. And I’m sure COVID has not helped with this, where we’re going to fast casual, more now more than ever. But I would love to see a couple more chef driven restaurants pop up. I think we’re going to have one next year in George’s in the heights on Kavanaugh. But once it does get built, I’m cautiously optimistic that that might be one of those chef driven restaurants to get excited about.

Nate Disarro 44:31
Alright, well, I have to ask because everybody wants to know if you had to pick up a very and here’s the thing I kind of categorize experiences with restaurants into three different categories. One is atmosphere. Two is of course the cuisine, the food, the preparation, the dish, the taste, and then three is the chef or the staff or the people that make the restaurant what it is. So I’ll give you three answers. Okay. I got, but what how would you answer based on those three categories?

Kevin Shalin 45:05
Well, I always kind of think of it in terms of almost like price point and and like, you know, upscale or just more of a neighborhood type joint. So if I’m going like where you can just show up in T shirts and short shorts, I love and it’s not even really technically a restaurant. But I love going into K Hall produce and grocery store. And they have a little area where you can counter area you can walk up and you can order hamburgers and, and fried catfish and fried pork chops. And I love that you can just stroll up there in, you know, Order anything you want. And then you can do a little grocery shopping. And you’ve got like such an essence of that neighborhood there and that place has been there. I don’t know for 50 years at least. So going back, it’s another historical place. I love K Hall. I love feeling the vibe in there and being around folks and just that that energy. So K Hall definitely stands out. For me. I love the hidden gem and there’s not a more hidden gem. I’m going to give you two hidden gems in giving you for playing the rules. The ultimate hidden gem from me, I love Mexican food. I’m from Houston is El ProLink. A, I’ve been writing about them for years. They’re tucked in off Ronnie Param. And that is the ultimate hidden gem. I think it’s the best Mexican food restaurant in the area.

Nate Disarro 46:39
Now is it more authentic Mexican or Tex Mex style?

Kevin Shalin 46:42
I would say it leans more kind of more towards Tex Mex. Best enchiladas great burritos. And they’ve expanded. I think they used to get angry at me when I’d write about them because they’re this tiny restaurant. But now they’ve kind of doubled in size. So that’s that’s good. One place I love recommending to people is Milford Track. I could give you the give you the address and you still wouldn’t be able to find it that’s how much of a hidden gem it is. But they used to they still do they make their own pasta to order that what What place does that they make pasta to order like from scratch. That’s a great story to me that that’s exciting. Those are the those little things that I really love reporting on. And finally, I have really been impressed with Allsop and Chapel in, in downtown here. And one of the reasons that I’ve been so impressed is when I first went there, I’m going to say almost probably four years ago now three, four years ago, I didn’t have a good experience and had a bad piece of fish just wasn’t great. And I didn’t go for about a year. And that’s a thing about the blog that I really like is that I kept listening to people, they kept posting like I’m having a great meal. I’m having a great meal. Well, after you’re here, you know 50 People who you trust and respect, speak glowingly about a place I’m ready to get back on board and see what maybe it was a bad night. Maybe they’ve had it maybe they have a different chef now. And it’s turned into one of my favorite restaurants had that same experience happened at Shell Bochy, where I didn’t have a good experience at first. I think it’s, you know, both those places I would put my top five right now. I can’t imagine having a better steak and little rock than also their filet is is fantastic. It’s a great experience. It’s it’s an upscale vibe, but it’s still a little rock so it’s not to hoity toity but those are the places that I love that you know maybe I didn’t have a great experience the first time around I listened to the audience. They they told me to give it another shot and I did and it’s been great ever since so I think I ended up giving you four I can go on

Nate Disarro 48:59
I’ll take I’ll take the long list. Yeah, I’m still I love to obviously eat out and try different foods you know half the time I feel like I keep going back to the normal places that you just kind of know and trust it’s funny my probably favorite just go to dish in Central Arkansas is and it’s at both cheers and Samantha’s you know where I’m going?

Kevin Shalin 49:24
Yeah, I know you’re going

Nate Disarro 49:29
but it’s I don’t know. It’s just it’s so good. It’s always fresh. And it’s always just on point and consistent. Like you said, I mean the consistency is always there. So it’s yeah, it’s it’s got to be one of my top probably three dishes in Central Arkansas, which is ironic, but

Kevin Shalin 49:46
it’s such a well executed dish. It’s beautiful and it tastes great. And yeah, the thing about restaurants like cheers you get in such a zone with what you like and the last time I was there with my youngest daughter I forced myself to order something other than the salmon salad. I like force myself to do it just so I could be a little more well rounded writer about restaurants. But yeah, it’s hard sometimes that’s hard for me when, you know, I’m like a regular diner, I just wanted some things you like you like what you like. And I’m constantly trying to educate the audience and write about different dishes. And I’m, I don’t order what I love sometimes. And that’s kind of tough, it’s a little bit of a challenge, but to your point. And it’s one thing that I’ve really tried working on is that one of the things I’ve figured out early on, is that we are so set in our ways as diners in in. And part of that is we don’t like to go more than 10 minutes from our house to eat out. I want to encourage people to get out of their comfort zone, go to neighborhoods that they don’t necessarily go to a lot. It’s okay to cross the river. That goes for people in North Little Rock to not just little rockers who say I’m not crossing the river, Cross River, Argent is 10 minutes away. So let’s throw the excuses to a site to the side like like, there’s no excuse that this place is too far. I want to part of the goal of building a community is to get people to go to places to be aware of restaurants that they didn’t know existed, and to go to them. And if I can be a leader in an exam and send an example like, oh, man, I didn’t. I’ve been living here all my life. I didn’t know about K Hall. Well, if this guy’s eaten there, and it looks like a really good man, I like that. Look, that’s a good look, converter, let me go see if I can try it Well, in my mind, all you have to do is go to K Hall once and you’ll be hooked. So if I can be that person to motivate others, that that is that’s as good as it gets.

Nate Disarro 51:53
I love that. And I’ll jump on that bandwagon. I just got back from Italy, which was an amazing trip. But, you know, in Florence, Italy, for example, you walked everywhere. I mean, driving is not really an option and to walk 15 minutes, you know, three quarters of a mile across the town, you don’t think twice about it. Yeah. And you explore along the way. But, you know, we’re such a convenience driven society here, in Little Rock in Central Arkansas, in most of America. You know, it’s not until you really get into the big urban communities that, you know, you can choose to walk or take an Uber drive or whatever. And it forces you to explore more. But I think you’re exactly right, you know, we get so convenience driven, we don’t want to leave our neighborhood, that extra 510 minute drive, it’s just, if I

Kevin Shalin 52:45
hear someone telling me they will not go west to the missus of Mississippi, you know, to go out to eat, or vice versa, that or I’m not gonna go south to 630 those types of comments, you want to know things that piss me off? It’s those types of comments were unlike it’s right there, y’all. And can you imagine if you get you and five of your friends to go, you can change a business’s livelihood. That’s important, we need to do that. And I want to shed light on these places and make people aware that we have them here. There are so many places that people have no idea exist, they’ve been living here their whole life, they have no idea exists. Well, I’ve spent the last 10 years finding these places, I’m going to continue to do that. Because I love it. And I want to let people know about them that that is again, I go back to the word rewarding. A when I go into off baseline and find a taqueria and and and write about it. And then I get people that are not used to traveling to that neighborhood. That’s where it’s at. for me. I really love that.

Nate Disarro 53:56
Well, I think your blog is doing it your your content you’re putting out you’re getting awareness out, I think it’s all a great thing if I could encourage any restaurant owners that are listening here, beyond these apps that people can download. And even if you don’t need a reservation necessarily, it gives people that mentality of what’s out there. Because you know how many times we said what, what should we eat tonight or you know, whatever. And you just need that motivation. And so I’m sure a lot of people end up seeing your posts and that makes a decision for them. But we need something to help instigate that decision making process. So I’d love to see more places in Central Arkansas just be on the apps, you know, be make it easier for people to find you.

Kevin Shalin 54:38
Yeah, it’s a big deal and restaurants need to step up there. Most restaurants are terrible on social media. And they need to realize that it is of the utmost importance if they want to connect with your resume to the audience. I see it all the time restaurants think they can open and they’ve got great food and that’s enough. It’s not enough you need to value reaching out potential customers more than just about anything. If I always tell chefs, you can make the great the best dish in the world, and if no one knows about it, what’s the point? And social media is, is front and center. And there’s just so many places that don’t value it yet. I don’t know what it’s going to take for them to do that. But I guess that will change over time. Hopefully it will.

Nate Disarro 55:22
Alright, well, all this talk about food, I’m getting hungry. It’s getting close to lunchtime. Before I go into kind of our final little quick hit questions. Yeah. Is there anything else that you want to talk through that that you know, is important to you and kind of your journey through food writing and the content you put out, I just,

Kevin Shalin 55:40
I would like to encourage people to be supportive in not just of what I’m doing. But other there are great bloggers in this town that are doing it, that were starting out like me, many years ago, support them, encourage them, follow them. Write comments, and, you know, write comments to restaurants and encourage them to, to do to do more things to do better things. They need that motivation as well.

Nate Disarro 56:07
Awesome. All right, few quick questions, and we’ll go find a tasty lunch spot. What’s the best or latest book you’ve read or received?

Kevin Shalin 56:17
Oh, the best book I’ve, I’m a sports guy. And I forget the name of it. Now I just read it. But it’s the history of pitches in baseball. And you learn about every pitch that’s ever been thrown all the intricacies. And I just kind of been fascinated by that. And that’s that’s the baseball nerd in me. So I can’t remember the name of the book. But if you ever want to know about every pitch, it’s ever been thrown knuckle balls and splitters and sinkers. There’s a book out

Nate Disarro 56:48
there for you. Interesting. Yeah, very cool. What is part of your daily routine that you have to do?

Kevin Shalin 56:55
daily routine, a big part of it is I usually spend an hour hour and a half, maybe two hours at a local coffee shop and doing my writing that is especially developed because of when COVID I was kind of locked in the house. And now I just want to get out I love that energy. I love being in and it’s just easier for me to work and write being in a coffee shop. So you’ll if you see me out and about it’s usually at a coffee shop. I rotate just because I like to spread the love gizmos Nexus Fidel and company those mugs. Those are the places I like to work. Love it.

Nate Disarro 57:32
What is the best piece of advice you’ve either given or received?

Kevin Shalin 57:37
excuses or for the week I remember when I was just out of college and I had this office space type job. One of the sales guys I was trying to get out of doing something he’s like shaylen Excuses are for the weak. And I think about that quote all the time. Like you just gotta power through. You don’t need to hear the excuses. And just do what you need to do. And and, and don’t make any excuses.

Nate Disarro 58:03
Love it. Do you have any newly formed habits especially coming out of the COVID era?

Kevin Shalin 58:11
Oh, man, ah, besides Wordle I do my dirt I do the daily Wordle I really look forward to that. Gosh, I wouldn’t say I have any new habits. I’m so immersed in this food stuff. I it’s hard to take on other things.

Nate Disarro 58:31
Totally get that already. If you wrote a book or if you could have a big billboard on 630 with a message on it. What would the title of the book be? Or what would the billboard say?

Kevin Shalin 58:40
But if it was on the side of 630 out, you know, I want something that says like eat little rock. You know, I want people to know that embracing our food culture has a far bigger impact than just food. We’re building a community here. And food can shed a light on a city and affect other areas profoundly. I’m a believer in that. But you know, I want people to really embrace our dining scene here and whatever that is, it’s not just restaurants. It’s our local bakers. It’s the bakeries, the cottage bakers, the coffee shop owners, the farmers my gosh the farmers farmers markets. There are so many levels to this that go beyond restaurants and I just want people to to embrace them all in some capacity.

Nate Disarro 59:27
Love your passion for it. All right, what’s the best thing you’ve bought in the last year for less than $100?

Kevin Shalin 59:33
A juice squeezer and at eggshells. It’s I saw it and I said yeah, how do I not have that gadget? And now I love it. It’s it’s it’s pretty substantially and you can juice a line and it just it’s good. I just thought that

Nate Disarro 59:51
I know you like sports but what about music? Do you have any favorite artists or musicians?

Kevin Shalin 59:55
Absolutely Pearl Jam. I’ve seen them in concert many times. arms have seen them in Wrigley Field I travel to see Pearl Jam. I saw my first Pearl Jam concert in college in Austin in a field that remains open for them. And I still adore them on a more local level. There’s a guy named Parker Millsap. He’s, he’s performed in Little Rock several times just saw him a couple weeks ago at Whitewater. And somehow I lucked into, he’s doing a house concert in a couple of months here in Little Rock. And I’m really looking forward to that I signed up on got on the list for that. So those two are two musicians that I that I just adore.

Nate Disarro 1:00:38
Well, I saved the best for last. We already talked about restaurants but what is your favorite food or dish?

Kevin Shalin 1:00:45
Boy… I love Chinese food. That’s nostalgic for me. We didn’t have we didn’t eat out a lot when I was a kid. But we did. It was Chinese food. So I love a good dumpling. That’s probably my favorite thing. And I just broke the news this morning that three folders. Their second location is about to open in a couple of weeks. And they’re all about the dumplings. I love making dumplings. I love eating dumplings. I love all Chinese food. But if if I’ve got a great recipe I make it home I’ve made for last 20 years. I’m a dumpling I tell if I’m a dumpling whore. I mean like it you know that that goes beyond that every country has a good dumpling, right? You know, you go to Italy they got the ravioli, you go to Poland with pierogi. So I am just I embrace the dumpling format. But potstickers wherever you want to call it. That’s what I love.

Nate Disarro 1:01:39
I love it. Yeah. And I saw that about Three Fold. I think now Westwood rock doesn’t have to come downtown. So they’re happy. Very happy about that. Very happy. Yep. Awesome. Well, Kevin, this has been fantastic. I’m extremely hungry and can’t wait to try some new stuff. But thank you so much for for jumping in here.

Kevin Shalin 1:01:54
Thank you for having me. It was a pleasure.

Nate Disarro 1:01:58
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