010 Nate Disarro | Titans of Industry
Titans of Industry | Episode 010
The pivot of conversation in light of COVID-19.
Summary
This short interjectory episode is to thank our listeners, and address a shift in content. Up until this point, the episodes released were recorded prior to the COVID-19 pandemic. In the upcoming episodes we will take into consideration how businesses and industries have been affected by COVID-19. And whether people will work towards getting back to business as usual or pivot and shift to do business differently for the foreseeable future.
View Transcript
Unknown Speaker 0:02
Hey, it’s Nate asaro. And if you’ve been listening to titans of industry up until this point, you know that I’m your host. So thank you for tuning in. I want to take some time to say a few things as we continue to bring you more amazing insights from some of these great Titans. So far, we have talked to a variety of leaders and innovators in industries, from real estate to agriculture, culinary to creative pharmacy to broadcasting and the music business to the publishing business. If you’ve started out with this episode, I strongly recommend you go back and listen to the first nine episodes so you can catch up to where we’re going. You’re going to hear some awesome advice, tips, leadership principles, life hacks, funny stories, and the interesting journeys that these Titans are on as they continue to lead the charge in their businesses and communities. We have a long way to go with this podcast and I want to give a special thank you to all of you that have listened and supported us so far. Thank you so much. Now I only have one favor to ask Will you follow us on social media at Content Titan and share this with your friends, your family, your co workers, your neighbors, your mailman, your cashier, your Uber driver, which by the way, Uber is not a sponsor of this podcast. But if you’re listening, go ahead and drop some cash, Venmo, PayPal, whatever you want to do, and anyone else you may be coming in contact with Well, from at least six feet away. We want to continue to grow the audience and inspire all types of people through these stories. Now, on a more serious note, the other reason I wanted to interject this short episode is to address the obvious nature of where the business community stands as of today, I’m recording this on May 28 2020, which puts us in the 11th week since the economic shutdown that affected nearly every business in some form or fashion. My intention is not to be a broken record and address the obvious but instead to discuss how businesses have coped and moved forward in innovative ways. We will take into consideration how businesses And industries have been affected by COVID-19. And whether people will work towards getting back to business as usual or pivot and shift to do business differently for the foreseeable future. We’re going to speak with everyone from bankers who have had to navigate an incredible volume of inquiries for PPP loans to leaders in the trucking industry who have helped ensure the safety and mobility of products and groceries moving across our country to keep Americans fed and supplied when many industries had to shut down completely. We will of course, talk to healthcare professionals about what it’s looked like on the frontlines nonprofits who still strive to achieve their mission despite a reduction in donations and grants. And of course, we’re going to get many more tips, tricks and leadership principles, as well as life hacks that you can apply in your own life to achieve a better future. Once again, I would like to thank the incredible team behind this podcast for working hard to put it all together. And if you know a titan that is doing amazing things, feel free to send an email to Hello at Content titan.co reach out to us at Content Titan on social media. I speak from experience when I say that our team at Content Titan is learning to innovate and do things differently just like so many other businesses, we’re offering a variety of new services from producing professional livestream events to doing socially distance productions, all the way to low cost commercials and digital content, and of course, storytelling and branding consultation to ensure that you are getting the right message in front of your audience. If you want your customers to know how you’re handling the new normal, we are here to help if there’s anything we can do, we want to be that resource for you. We truly believe that sharing great stories is significant and getting your business back to normal. So once again, thank you for listening and make sure to subscribe for many more episodes of titans of industry.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
009 Mitch Bettis | Titan of Publishing
Titans of Industry | Episode 009
Expert Insight on a Publishing Business
Summary
In this episode, I sit down with Mitch Bettis, owner and CEO of Arkansas Business Publishing Group based in Little Rock, AR.
Mitch talks about how to double down to capitalize on a niche market, the importance of focusing on your mission and purpose to create the most impact, and why in business, only the paranoid survive.
View Transcript
A Better Future for Content Marketing
How Companies like Planet Fitness Build Customer Loyalty through Content Marketing
Smart brands are recognizing the value of content marketing in the short AND long term. Though your audience might not be looking to buy now, they are looking for information or even entertainment – and you can provide that in a way that complements your brand. Then, when your audience is looking to buy down the road, it will already see your company as a trusted resource.
Treat content marketing as a bridge in the short and long term to stay connected with your audience.
According to the Content Marketing Institute – 84% of the most successful content marketing programs build customer loyalty with their content marketing.
Planet Fitness is a great example. With stay-at-home orders dominating the country, all Planet Fitness facilities are being forced to close. But that shouldn’t stop people from exercising – or connecting with Planet Fitness. That’s why the company launched United We Move: Home Work-Ins, a daily Facebook livestream class taught from the homes of its instructors. This not only promotes the brand and potentially engages more customers, but it also shows their ‘good will’ in the sense that they are willing to provide a service free-of-charge that can benefit their customers.
Right now is the time to be maximizing your efforts to stay in front of your audience. If you need help figuring out your next step, call us for a free consultation to determine the most effective content you can be putting out.
If you feel stuck and need a jump start to move in the right direction, reach out for a free consultation or to set up a plan to get your content marketing efforts in high gear. Clear messaging and consistent content are what will help your brand thrive as we move forward in the new normal.
008 Mary Elizabeth Davis | Titan of Creative
Titans of Industry | Episode 008
Expert insight on creating your dream job and leading creatives.
Summary
In this episode, I sit down with Mary Elizabeth Davis, the former managing editor of Southern Living Magazine who is currently the Director of Creative Services for one of the most notable marketing and communications firms based in Nashville, TN.
Mary Elizabeth talks us through her journey to landing her dream job as editor of one of the most popular magazines in the country, why she pivoted to use her storytelling skills for brands all over the nation, and how she learned what it means to rule with a “velvet hammer”.
View Transcript
Unknown Speaker 0:00
Trying to get people who didn’t report to me to give me something that I needed in order to make the deadline. It’s like trying to herd cats.
Unknown Speaker 0:08
Hey, it’s Nate Disarro and welcome to titans of industry, the podcast where I talk to industry leaders and innovators who are at the top of their game and leading the pack in their fields uncovering some of the best stories in today’s business landscape. In this episode, I sit down with Mary Elizabeth Davis, the former managing editor of Southern Living magazine, who is currently the Director of Creative Services for one of the most notable Marketing and Communications firms based in Nashville, Tennessee. Mary Elizabeth talks us through her journey to landing her dream job as the editor of one of the most popular magazines in the country. Why she pivoted to use her storytelling skills for brands all over the nation, and how she learned what it means to roll with a velvet hammer. Now, let’s get to the episode. But before we do, it’s important to know that whether you’re a small business owner or the face of a multi billion dollar industry, you’re Organization has a great story to tell, and content Titan wants to help you tell it. We are a digital content creation powerhouse built for the 21st century, providing all in creative strategic production post production and distribution services for at 360 degree 24 seven world. In our world Titans are passionate, creative doers. They have the experience to take your project from start to finish minimizing your involvement so you can focus on what matters most running your business. So if you’re ready to take your content, strategy and production to the next level, our Titans are ready to help. Now here’s my conversation with Mary Elizabeth Davis.
Unknown Speaker 1:42
Well, Mary Elizabeth, thanks so much for hopping on the podcast with us looking forward to hearing what you have to say about your time at Southern Living and then now here in Nashville as the director of Creative Services for quite the agency. So let’s just jump right in. Talk to me about how you got into this business of Southern Living magazine.
Unknown Speaker 2:04
Oh gosh, okay, I’m all for so thanks for having me. This is really fun. Um, so I got into the business of Southern Living because I went to school for graphic design and in Mobile, Alabama, small school, Spring Hill College, and then came back from like on Christmas break. And my parents my dad is an entrepreneur, small business owner and my parents have always been very career driven. My mom didn’t work, but my dad always did and they’re always like, pressuring us into like, Alright, so what’s your plan? You know, I came home one Christmas break. I think it was after my, I guess during my senior year, and there’s like, you know, you think you’re gonna go home and have like a relaxing Christmas break? No, not at the beginning house. Like, you’re going to go home, you’re probably going to work a little bit and then you’re going to figure out what your plan is for official Which is very because I’ve had a couple internships and like I had a feeling that like, I wasn’t ready to, you know, dive right into that. But anyway, so I was sitting near the kitchen counter, like googling internships knew I needed a graphics done internship. And I look over and there’s a Southern Living on the kitchen island, and I’m like, oh, that’d be cool. Like, I was like, very naive, obviously, and very brave and thought very highly of myself. I was like, looking at the milk agencies. And I mean, like, I don’t know who I thought it was like, which is a beautiful thing to be naive and really brave. Um, but so I googled it, and I’m like, oh, wow, they have an internship program. And so I applied for the internship, got the interview, which was very exciting. And I like wanting to and I think I interviewed for three or four jobs that day, I drove up from the old Birmingham interview for three or four. I mean, I was a nervous wreck driving up there because I like pulled over into a restaurant job changed into my hand. Have you outfit When interviewed and then drove back that day, which I thought I was like big shit, you know, I’m like, this college student coming in interviewing, like that just sounded so real life. Um, so then ends up I got the internship and said I’m living which was very cool it was in the production department which has no one in the world that was and started like right after school, the six month internship and move on move to Birmingham with the idea that I would be there for six months so like, my parents moved me and I got a futon like, very temporary situation. started my internship and which I should say that the reason I got that internship I asked when I got there like, hey, do you have any feedback on my interview? Is there anything I could have done differently or better for the future, which I think is good advice that my dad gave me always ask what you could have done differently or center, especially in the beginning of your career and The reason that I got I was like neck and neck with some other girl. And the reason I got the internship was because I wrote a thank you note. And so I mean, for girls who didn’t, you know, I clearly wasn’t raised by the right people, but it does go to show that really just like a personal touch, and I think some gratitude goes a long way. Yeah. So anyway, started the internship. And, much like any new job, you have no idea what your priorities are. It’s like everything is coming at you and everything feels like it’s a 911 situation, even though I look back and I was like stocking magazines or, you know, putting together tear sheets or whatever, but I was always volunteering for the next job. If there was a meeting with the editor, where he’s going to come talk to us, like, always go into that arriving early being on time. So I really worked my tail off and then it kind of turned into being at the right place at the right time. Obviously, that’s was like back in 2007. And publishing since then has not been the same.
Unknown Speaker 6:05
And I think I was cheap enough and naive enough and worked my tail off that they were like, that girl looks like she could do it, you know. And so I probably did the job of about four people throughout my time and I just kept growing in my career there. And so worked my way through the production department learned all about operations and magazine production. And then over time as our staff strong kind of evolved into more of an operations role in terms of like the editorial content. And so I made my way into the managing editor See, which was really incredible. It was obviously like a bucket list career moment for me, but it I can only say that looking back now, because when you’re in the thick of it, you’re like, Oh my gosh, how many peoples to have in mind Right now and you know, it just feels like so much. So as managing editor, I was working across all of our departments. So, travel homestyle garden, all of like the future stories, etc. to manage the content that was being created and to help develop editorial calendars or what are we what are we proposing work is going to be an age issue what what is our cover options? When are we shooting things? Who’s writing this? What’s our budget? Are we within that please say yes. All of that and you know, worked hand in hand with the executive editor there Chrissy, who is just amazing. She’s a longtime journalist and writer, and Wrangler of all the things but and we really kind of built what I felt like I was really proud of, and I really just started hitting my stride. It was a weird time because, you know, throughout my time at Southern Living, we went from Print focus too. We have to lean really heavily on digital and how are we going to harness digital? And how are we going to evolve the way that we’re communicating to our audience who are very traditional print people. So we introduced the tablet editions, which was that was an experience. And then we got into licensing deals with partnerships with dealers and ballers and working with them on what kind of products we want to produce. And that was very cool to kind of always look through the lens or the mind of a southern woman, which came naturally to me, but also, you know, think about my mom and my grandma, and what would they like? And really, it was extremely valuable to be at a brand like Southern Living because people like would write in and say, like, Oh, no, like, I have my Bible, and then I have my Southern Living. And it’s like, in what other industry does that exist? Sure. Do you know what I mean? Like we I think essence has a really strong brand equity investors. Like Southern Living, but these are audiences that are extremely passionate about the brand. And so I was really fortunate to be in that, you know, because we all we saw other shelter titles like cottage living rest in peace, coastal living rest in peace. You know, there’s other titles that that folded Southern accents, but um, the tried and true brands kind of stuck it out. But anyway, so that was kind of fun time and so they’re living it was great we got into like events where we were doing branded events, partnerships with cities where we were doing editor takeovers, and we would kind of come in and plan a big event in the city and get all of the readers and consumers to come out and join us and pay to be there with editors, which seems weird to me, but that kind of all goes back to the brand equity that people just love it so much and I still look back and think it’s pretty incredible.
Unknown Speaker 9:57
There’s so much to unpack from that but I think One of the things that stands out big time is the brand equity. And we’ll dive into that a little further. And then also the, you know, your personal path to becoming managing editor. You know, you started in the creative only world and then managing editor, there’s a lot more responsibilities other than just, hey, make it look pretty or, you know. So let’s go there first and talk a little bit about that, that sort of crossover between sort of the creative side, but also kind of the business side, the organizational side. What do you find as sort of the the challenge of balancing both of those worlds and what did you have to learn or how did you learn those things?
Unknown Speaker 10:36
Well, it’s so interesting, because when I started, when I graduated college and started in an internship, my goal was to be an art director and then a creative director. Like That was my career. That’s what I want to do when I grow up. And then I got into the production department who helps kind of put the files together on the back end, send them to the printer and make sure that it everything turns out the way we want it to be. And kind of help coordinate in a project management way with the designer. So not as much hands on design, but more post production. But since I was setting the deadlines for designers, I remember the lightbulb moment of being like, I don’t want to be the person answering those deadlines, and be the person under the gun because oh my god, how can you be creative when you have three hours to do it? And like to this day that stresses me out, you know? And so I do remember thinking, you know, what, like, maybe this whole, like Taipei, I’m a Virgo like maybe this is what I was made to do to kind of like, work in a creative environment, and have a freelance gig on the side where I can design whenever I want and kind of undermine own deadlines, but not but in my day job kind of be more structured and kind of a part of the The intercourse it of what makes this magazine come out. And so I do remember that that moment and it also made me way more creative outside of work. So in my freelance life, being surrounded by the content that we were creating every day and the kind of designs that we were doing every day, I just was so inspired. You know, it’s, it’s very difficult not to be inspired around those kind of people. And so I could take that outside of work and do it on my own time, which was great. And then as you know, my role evolved at Southern Living. It’s just it’s very much apparent in what I do every day here. I have a hard time staying in my lane. And I laugh because I know everybody that’s listening this is agreeing with me if they know me, and it’s just I love being creative. And I love spewing ideas and not in like an I hope it’s not obnoxious way but in a Like, what if we did this, you know, and kind of being a part of a collaborative brainstorm and discussion. And I’ve really learned how to harness that and leverage it for growth. So both personally and in my career, you know, for a long time, I would think, or hear the ideas being like in a brainstorm outside of what I was doing. And I remember being like, that’s, like, why, why would we? Why would they do it this way, and just sitting there, stewing and rolling my eyes, and then getting an opportunity to sit at the table where you’re contributing, and then watching those ideas. The positive reaction to those ideas and not like everything I say is genius. But the the times when it is it’s like, oh, okay, maybe I maybe I could do this. And maybe this is like, this is a path for me. And so moving towards that was really empowering and I think that attributed to my success, but also You know, one of the things that I learned a whole lot at Southern Living was through managing creative deadlines. So I was trying to get people who didn’t report to me. So this is like in the production world, trying to get people who didn’t report to me to give me something that I needed in order to make the deadline. It’s like work, you know, ruling with a velvet hammer. It’s like trying to herd cats. It’s like, you have to be nice enough and on their level. And like, as a designer, I totally got what they were going through. And it’s like, okay, just tell me like, so how much time do you think you need? And what if I gave you this day? And I turn this around and took this off your plate, and then you could focus on this? Like, how would you feel about that? And just coming at people with a sense of empathy, and on their level was like a game changer. And I know I mean, you totally get this and, and that something that people a lot of people don’t have, and I didn’t realize I said at the time, it’s way easier to see looking back on. But that’s been a career differentiator for me.
Unknown Speaker 15:09
Yeah, for sure. I think that’s crucial. First of all, the self awareness of understanding what how am I performing as a, you know, manager or even like you said, people that aren’t reporting to me, how do I get on their level? How do I make them feel like I get what they’re going through, but I stopped to get them to do what I need them to do. And I think that’s a huge thing to just when you come across that point where you understand that and then you can the psychology that goes into now how do I manage to that is a big deal. So switching gears now to the brand of Southern Living, like you said, You You went into it, thinking we can’t just cater to what I like or what I think of as Southern Living, but what is my mom what was my grandmother like and you kind of have to fill the void of all these different demographics, making sure it’s strong and in on brand, but it’s different. People who are generational and so how, how did you kind of curate that? How did you kind of keep that brand? such a strong brand, but also be able to continue to cater to, to a changing demographic? Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 16:14
that’s a great question. And luckily, with that kind of audience, they’ll let you know when you hit a soft spot. So we, because of advertising, you know, style, the dollars and still to this day, there is so much money to be had in the beauty market, L’Oreal Maybelline I mean, all of the, that’s where the ad dollars are. And so we pushed heavily into that market for us. So, I was there when we decided to create a style section of the book, you know, Southern Living had always dabbled on style, but it’s more like what do you know back in the 60s, what are you going to wear as you’re hosting your guests or the perfect test? This outfit, but it never It was more like about your tablescape and matching your tablescape or the prep going into it. But it was never a solo kind of section. And so we pushed into that because the ad dollars were there. But also that was a way to instantly reach a younger demographic. So we kind of created columns like you know, my mom verse me, so how this works for her and how it works for me and it could be one blouse or tunic and how I’m going to style it, how my mom’s going to style it and kind of bridging the gap. And so that was kind of an interesting way to appeal to a new audience. We lowered the price point a little bit in terms of how we were talking about tablescapes. So maybe it’s taking your grandmother’s China and using it you know her China for ways and it shows it with a really cool ikat tablecloth or how You can mix gold and silver or how use your silver, you know, take this over that you inherited. And here’s how to make a really cool tablescape for your Derby party. And so just taking what may be seen as traditional and uptight and like, Oh, that’s so my grandmother stuff, I don’t even know how to like, incorporate that into my day to day, and then breaking it down and giving them ideas of how to incorporate it. You know, when people think about their grandmothers and their moms, there’s instant, you know, heartstrings being tugged. And so it’s like, they want to be able to use that and they want to be able to like, oh, it does, it reminds me of my grandmother, but like, how can I make it cool? Like, what’s my take on this? And we tried to do that with this style section, but also Homes and Gardens and really breaking into one page or two stories. Instead of like, here’s an elaborate rancher yard that has like, incredible landscaping. It’s like, let’s create a container of the month. Here’s the container you should be making full of like, you know, container pot plants like it can be very easy. So taking this idea of Southern lifestyle and making it more approachable, and more realistic to kind of a younger audience was really a big part of what we did. That also came, you know, as the staff kind of turned over and we brought in younger people. There were a lot of people who had been there for 50 years, we celebrated the 50th anniversary while I was there, they hadn’t been there the whole time, but like who had been there 2030 years, it’s like, some fresh blood was great. Obviously, those people had brought Southern Living into what it was. And so there’s a lot to be said for that but also kind of evolving and changing and like I said, it is not all sunshine and roses. People will tell you like if you run a story on an art gallery, and there happened to be naked people naked statues when that one reader goes to visit. You’ll hear about it Although those naked statues were not there, when you did your story, if they are at any point, it’s like your Southern Living should not be promoting this,
Unknown Speaker 20:08
you know what I mean? Because I mean, that shows the power of an established brand, you know, when you maybe skew Outside the Lines creatively, your audience is gonna let you know very quickly. Oh, yeah, yes, that’s not who you are.
Unknown Speaker 20:21
Definitely. And it’s cool to also you know, look back at cover trends and you know, there’s a reason that they’re always there’s always the white cake and then December issue. tailgating will always be a September October feel pumpkin you know, like, you can kind of go through and it’s like, oh, there’s the white house because White House has always performed on the cover. Yeah, always perform on Instagram like put a White House on it will always perform.
Unknown Speaker 20:47
So interesting point. So you were kind of there to when the the transition went from published hardcopy, yeah, digital, and now this so recording this in 2020. Yeah. If you’re not digital first, then You’re behind. But what was that transition? Like, as you were seeing the trends of people not picking up a magazine? Yeah, but
Unknown Speaker 21:06
this is so fun to think back on. Because it was like, when we first decided we were going to launch our social channels. It was like taking what we did in the magazine and just putting it on social. And as you know, that’s not how social works. It’s like social as a total. I mean, I’m thinking Instagram particularly, it’s a totally different content, you know, it’s the same brand but different content approach. And so people want to be inspired by the photos that they see on the Instagram platform, and they don’t necessarily want to see the same article that they saw in their issue. And so if you go and look now, I mean, they do an amazing job running the channel now. It’s just inspiration after inspiration, but then they kind of like introduce, you know, dog photos or things that like are not In the issue every month, because there aren’t people love it. And so you kind of want their different audiences, you know, you look at your print audience, and it’s like, what are they engaging with. And we had a great consumer research department that kind of kept their finger on the pulse of what our readers wanted to see. But then now with social, we can look into the analytics and understand so much more of what our, you know, digital consumers want to read and want to see and, and it’s not so much LinkedIn profile or swipe up for this, but it’s just like making sure that the brand, the authentic brand is on those channels. So that was that was really interesting to look back at. Because, you know, in the beginning, it was like, Oh, this editor should just take over the page, whatever. It’s like, that doesn’t work, you know, and being able to throw spaghetti at the wall and see what sticks was a huge lesson that I learned at Southern Living like it doesn’t have to stay forever. Just pivot realize when it doesn’t work and then move on, you know, so that was that was big. What are times People forget there’s a difference in social media and digital media,
Unknown Speaker 23:03
right social, you’re actually creating a social environment, something for building gauging something for people to think about and have an experience with, and then move on to the next one and the next one and the next one. And that’s what our social lives are like, we do a thing. And we talk about it. And then we do another thing. We talked about it, it’s constantly moving, and we’re engaging with the new thing. And digital media can be just putting something out there not expecting people to completely engage with it in the same way, maybe more informative, or whatever. But I think a lot of brands sometimes forget, there’s a difference between the two, and they want their social media to just be digital me, we just need to put this stuff out there. And, but I think it’s interesting from a publication standpoint, you know, you’ve talked so much about being on brand. And when you think about today in your current role, which we’ll transition to, as a Creative Services Director for an agency. Brands should be doing the exact same thing. They should really be a publication of their message and staying on brand. But also how do I engage that consumer with my social media with, you know, other forms of media? And so talk about now, as you transitioned out of Southern Living, you know, what did that look like? And where did you think you were going nuts? Was it another publication that you thought you were going to? Or did you think you would end up in the agency world?
Unknown Speaker 24:24
Yeah. That’s a great question. So we, my husband, was getting his master’s when we were in Birmingham, and healthcare administration. So we knew that that could mean a career change for him, which I was open to and you know, publishing and magazine life is not for the faint of heart. There was so many long hours so seeing the Devil Wears Prada. Yes. Yeah. No, really, though. And so he got an opportunity. Obviously, I grew up in Nashville, moved to Birmingham for Southern Living. And he got an opportunity here in Nashville. While we were We’re living in Birmingham to come and work here and an administrative role. And so it kind of was everything he’d been working towards with his master’s program. And so when that and it was obviously really nice to come back home for me, we had one child at the time and to be closer to family, it was a big a big deal for us. So I left Southern Living, which was really bittersweet. I love the people there they are still, I mean, I was, I guess, 22 when I started and I left there when I was 32 and 33. And that’s a lot of life in a lot of life change that you go through in one place, and those people are very much still my family. But so I left there and came to Nashville and had what I call my sabbatical because I was unemployed and didn’t know. I mean, I was like, burnt out from Southern Living like I just needed a minute and to try and figure out what in the hell do I do next. So I was doing the networking thing where you go to like four coffee meetings a day, and then you don’t play because you’ve had four coffee meetings.
Unknown Speaker 26:07
We’ve all been there.
Unknown Speaker 26:08
Yeah. So if you haven’t been still
Unknown Speaker 26:10
there for networking, please, right. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 26:13
And so
Unknown Speaker 26:15
we, we came back and I started just talking to people and someone introduced me to somebody here at MP NF. And I came up and just, I don’t know, just to like, see what they do, how I could help, you know, I’m like, I could either, like, because what do you do with the managing editor? Like, I have all of these skills that you don’t realize that you have especially so soon after you just left and and so anyway, I didn’t know what in the world I was going to do. So that’s really hard to go into an interview with like, I don’t know, what do you want me
Unknown Speaker 26:48
to do? It’s It’s such a fascinating just just hearing you say that because you you’re managing editor of publication, there was like people’s Bible, you know, and so just the psychology that goes into like,
Unknown Speaker 26:59
yeah, Yeah, mission. Yeah. self confidence. And so it’s like I knew I didn’t want to get back into publishing because people kept trying to push me towards publications here or lifestyle outlets, or you know, and it’s like, I don’t really, how do you go from Southern Living to like a local magazine, or you know, and like, that’s nothing against the local magazine, but I just didn’t want I felt like I would always be comparing it. And it’s just, their advertisers are different. And their bottom line is different. And so I didn’t want to do that. And so I started talking to the folks here at mpns. I remember meeting with all the partners in them saying, you know, like, We need someone to run our creative department. And I’m thinking, Oh, well, like, yeah, I can totally do that. I mean, that’s what I did for 10 years of Southern Living, not directly overseeing the designers, but I oversaw a ton of Creative People and oh my gosh, I could totally do this and I just felt really confident but also I am a people person, and I like this This development and I like, you know, that’s another skill that I didn’t realize I kind of gained when I was at Southern Living was the ability to sell things, but in an authentic and meaningful way. And so they brought me on as creative director. So I have a team here of 10 designers, web developers, incredible folks, and very, very creative. And we work with our larger team of account staff and administrative people who we work across all different industries, healthcare, education, nonprofit, I mean all of the federal programs to kind of create really meaningful content. We also do a lot of crisis comms Media Relations all I mean, we’re a strategic communications agency. So we dabble in a little bit of everything data marketing, but I love it here. It’s awesome
Unknown Speaker 28:58
work. And I think there’s a lot of parallels that you’ve probably have have put together. But just the way I see it is, it’s almost like every month or every, however often you’re putting together a magazine, like there’s different sections. And each section is like a client and you have work to put out each each article is different. But you’ve got to make sure it gets done and manage the people that are getting it done. And there’s timelines and deadlines and budgets. And so it sounds like it’s kind of the perfect fit, kind of the perfect transition, get to use all those skills that you developed at such an early age and in for such an iconic brand and bring that to your current client base, which is exactly what they need.
Unknown Speaker 29:35
And I really in it’s been I’ve been at MPI for three years now, and done a lot of reflecting recently because, you know, I started my career and I mentioned this earlier, wanting to be a creative director. And then I took a totally roundabout way with three knots in it to get to where I am today and it’s kind of a full circle kind of situation, but also have those skills that I learned along the way of bringing new and fresh ideas to the table? And always asking questions and always wondering how we can do better. The communication methods that you use with different styles of people, making sure that they feel heard and all of their ideas are good, and how do we work together to bring those to a better place, and then presenting to clients, you know, it’s like, it’s just like going on a sales trip for Southern Living. It’s the same thing and creating these meaningful relationships with them that that you can then go back to a team of amazing people here and deliver on the work has been incredible. We are constantly learning constantly evolving our skill set and growing. As an agency. It’s like it’s all very full circle because it’s the same thing over and over, but in a new and better way, and like in a more advanced way.
Unknown Speaker 31:00
Ultimate. I think that’s such an interesting perspective.
Unknown Speaker 31:04
So I want to run through a few things really quick.
Unknown Speaker 31:09
What do you see as ways brands are standing out today? What are some of the things brands are doing?
Unknown Speaker 31:15
Um, I think that the, the way that people are getting back to their consumer and like cutting the crap, it’s like, just tell people what they want to hear. And, you know, you look at Instagram, for instance, there were so many brands that created beautiful content that was perfect. And that was, you know, the perfect table setting or the perfect, you know, whatever. And then now, people are like, Oh, no, no, no, just show them real life. People want to see real life. They want to see people that they identify with and I love that I think it is so much more approachable. It is like it resonates with people so much better. So I’m thrilled that that’s kind of becoming a thing again, I think that you know, it’s interest seem to see the pendulum of digital, you know, it’s like we become so addicted to our, our devices. It’s like so what happens when we swing the other way. And I hope that we keep swinging the other way and taking some time away from our, our devices, because I’m like very much guilty of all of that. But you know, the ability to like you go to weddings now and it’s like, oh, drop your phone at the door, or you go to a restaurant or certain restaurants who are like, we’re no cell phones down, you know, like, put your phone down and enjoy each other’s company. I love that. And I hope that we kind of continue to swing that way, which is cool.
Unknown Speaker 32:34
Yeah, I talk all the time about the idea of human human connection and how, regardless of how we get there, that has to be the Paramount piece of our digital interactions. It needs to drive us to have human human interaction. If we don’t use this platform to get face to face or even you know, digital to digital, but where there’s a human connection, then we’re What are we doing? You know, that’s where I mean we see people struggling with Depression all the time, because they’ve just they think this is everything. And and it’s just amazing that, that that still has to be kind of embedded in people’s mindset. Yeah. Absolutely. You talked a lot about teams and the teams you manage talk a little bit about just sort of the importance of teamwork in order to create a successful product.
Unknown Speaker 33:26
I mean, I can’t you they’re just without teamwork. It’s not a successful product period. And I think that we as an agency have grown so much in terms of the way that we’re pulling people into projects. It’s like we’re pulling creative people in on the very beginning in the pitch because it’s like, we’re just bringing fresh ideas in people who have not worked with the client for five years and they’re coming in with like, have you ever thought about this? You know, and chances are they haven’t thought about that. But it’s not just about bringing Creative People and it’s like about creative people bringing account staff into. So it goes two ways. And sometimes I’ve found that that the Venn diagram of perfection is when you have a meeting of the minds and really can collaborate together. I feel like I use the word collaborate ad nauseum. It’s just annoying, but it’s like, that’s where the magic happens, it’s never going to be my idea. It’s never going to be your idea. But together, we’ll come up with a really good idea. And you know, we have a great work from home policy here, which is awesome. But sometimes it can be really hard to collaborate and feel the energy of a brainstorm and create your best work when like you’ve got all these different remote teams. And that’s not to say that we do really great Didn’t we use zoom and all of the digital tools but sometimes there’s just a lot to be said about getting together in person and sketching it out on the whiteboard or, or even ripping the paper apart and starting over together.
Unknown Speaker 35:01
I’ve seen a fan of that just through social media that you guys put out seems like y’all really push, collaborating with teams and getting out and doing things. And I think that’s huge. I think not enough people put emphasis into that. And I know there’s a lot of brands out there companies, agencies that think it’s too expensive to win, you know, whatever, but doesn’t have to be monumentally expensive. It can cost 50 bucks for some pizza or you know, whatever. Or three, just take some Lacroix. So, yeah, get out and do things together. And it really kind of solidifies that team mentality. Who are some of your heroes Titans, as I like to call? Oh, gosh,
Unknown Speaker 35:37
oh, you should have told me about that question.
Unknown Speaker 35:38
Think about it.
Unknown Speaker 35:41
Deena IV at the CDC. I don’t know if you worked with her recently, but she is probably my mentor. If I had to pick one, she has no idea. So that’s that. But she is such a badass marketing genius. And I mean, she runs tight ship she is incredibly creative but also has that balance of get it done and she will do whatever it takes to do it right and do it really well and there is no other that well is the standard like you do it right. And so and she meets it every single time and but over there I mean they just run an incredible show but she also is an incredible mom and wife and so the way that she manages her family and her son who boy Mom, I just I really admire that and her ability to still find time to grab lunch or coffee or a drink after work or and still prioritize her marriage and her personal life and her children and but still be a badass in her career is very inspiring to me. So
Unknown Speaker 36:53
Alright, few rapid fire questions. These are the fun ones. best book or latest book that you grab
Unknown Speaker 37:03
oh my gosh
Unknown Speaker 37:04
magazine for that matter.
Unknown Speaker 37:05
Oh, well there we go veranda. I’m really into Miranda right now. I did read a really good book. I think it was called behind closed doors. And it was so creepy. I read it a couple months ago and it was a really good like suspenseful book. Other than that magazine junkie over here, country living is actually doing amazing things. They have totally reenergized the brand and so it’s really cool if you ever read country living which I don’t know if that’s really up your alley, but then and now to kind of look at the way the brand has evolved really cool. Gardening gun obviously Southern Living would be remiss if I didn’t say that. But yeah, definitely a magazine junkie. Also, podcast junkie and, and all of that. What’s your favorite podcast? Well, so I get in, I get down deep into industry podcasts. I really like Yeah, that’s probably an ad by Adweek. David Greiner kind of runs their podcasts and he does a really good job of not being annoying and really delivering content that is, that resonates with me, but also with I think everyday Joe Schmo. It’s just kind of like what’s happening in the agency world, but then also, you know, dissecting the Superbowl ads or, you know, the, what’s AI and how is it affecting our dating relationships or you know, stuff like that. He’s good.
Unknown Speaker 38:31
podcast hosts have a tendency of being really creative. So it’s good. Yeah. And also annoying. Yeah, he’s not annoying.
Unknown Speaker 38:37
I mean, it’s a fine line of like, I can’t listen to this no matter what the content is. If they don’t deliver it. Well, I just can’t. So yeah.
Unknown Speaker 38:46
daily routine. What’s that? What’s the one thing you have to do every day?
Unknown Speaker 38:49
I mean, I definitely have to have coffee.
Unknown Speaker 38:51
Are you like a first thing out of bed? drinker or when you get to the office?
Unknown Speaker 38:55
Yeah, no, definitely. First thing I’ve been trying to drink lemon water first thing which is Just wake you up for like it’s like oh wow, that’s tart. Um so
Unknown Speaker 39:03
there’s a cold shower but yeah,
Unknown Speaker 39:04
it’s not cold shower works to definitely coffee and then my husband and I both get up very early and kind of get our day started that’s like kind of our thing and it’s we kind of go into different parts of the house and it’s just we wake up and have quiet time before the boys wake up and that’s definitely starts my day off right? I don’t like being woken up by them because then I don’t have like any time to kind of think before we get started so do a 5am wake up. Yeah. It’s like 445 and but really like I am a morning person. I’ve learned that about myself and like at nine around 8pm like my brain is shutting down and so but in the morning, I feel so energized and I have the most creative ideas and I’m just like, on go mode. So
Unknown Speaker 39:54
love that best piece of advice you’ve ever received.
007 Ashley King | Titan of Broadcasting
Titans of Industry | Episode 007
Expert insight on radio broadcasting and hosting a popular talk show
Summary
In this episode, I sit down with Ashley King, a former radio personality and host of daytime talk show, The Vine.
Ashley tells us about her family’s roots in broadcasting, how random interactions with strangers lead her to some of her greatest career moments, and how she ended up in a Blake Shelton music video.
View Transcript
Unknown Speaker 0:00
That’s important. She was a lot of fun. Yeah, that’s on my tombstone. She was good. And she was a good book
Unknown Speaker 0:05
title right? She was
Unknown Speaker 0:08
a member.
Unknown Speaker 0:09
Hey, it’s Nate Disarro and welcome to titans of industry, the podcast where I talk to industry leaders and innovators who are at the top of their game and leading the pack in their fields, uncovering some of the best stories in today’s business landscape. In today’s episode, I sit down with Ashley King, a former radio personality and host of daytime talk show Devine. Ashley tells us about her family’s roots in broadcasting how random interactions with strangers led to some of her greatest career moments and how she ended up in a Blake Shelton music video. And now let’s get to the episode. But before we do, it’s important to know that whether you’re a small business owner or the face of a multibillion dollar industry, your organization has a great story to tell and content Titan wants to help you tell it. We are a digital content creation powerhouse built for the 21st century providing all in creation. Do strategic production post production and distribution services for at 360 degree 24 seven world. In our world Titans are passionate, creative doers. They have the experience to take your project from start to finish minimizing your involvement so you can focus on what matters most running your business. So if you’re ready to take your content, strategy and production to the next level, our Titans are ready to help.
Unknown Speaker 1:27
Now here’s my conversation with Ashley King.
Unknown Speaker 1:31
All right, so Ashley, it’s been a long time coming. Thanks for taking the time to come and do this. Let’s just get a little background on you. So I know you grew up in a broadcast family. Tell me about kind of what life was like growing up.
Unknown Speaker 1:43
Well, I grew up in Clinton, Arkansas, little bitty town but that town of 2000 people 2000 people then 2000 people just about now it’s never really grown, but has a little radio station. So my dad is from Searcy, Arkansas and worked at dogpatch USA and here And I had
Unknown Speaker 2:00
no idea I remember going there with my grandfather really parents as a little kid. Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 2:05
no theme park that was, at the time similar to, you know, a silver dollar city, but based off the little Abner comic strips and it was really big throughout the 60s and 70s. My dad was a drummer in the band, and he would work there every summer. And driving through Clinton, he noticed, you know, there wasn’t a radio station in that area, but there was there was an opening for a signal. So he at 24 built in, owned part of the radio station with my uncle, who was quite a bit older than my dad probably 20 something years older and was an established movie theater owner in Arkansas. So there was a tiny little movie there in a court square, you know, just one of those old movie theaters with a beautiful neon signs out front. And he said said I’ll help you put this radio station on if you’ll rent it all by this movie theater and if you run the movie theater, and you run the radio station, I’ll help you out. So, my dad went in with him. And now of course, my dad is majority owner but still owns it with his his sister. Now that was his brother in law at the time. And so his sister is part owner with him and, and now, my, my sister, my younger sister owns radio station and he were spraying so it’s definitely in the family and I grew up after school everyday running down, you know, and hanging out at the radio station until my dad got off work at five or six.
Unknown Speaker 3:29
Now those were the good old days of a radio station. Right. Right. So So what was it like back then what was it walking? I mean, because, you know, we’ve all seen the movies from like the 70s Oh, that was is that how it was? Well, so
Unknown Speaker 3:38
um, you know, he put the station on and I think it was 1976 and at the time it was just an am station and yeah, it was records you know, we had record players in the studio, which you don’t see record record players anymore. You know, the this. The cables solid media
Unknown Speaker 3:55
at all
Unknown Speaker 3:56
right? Yeah, you know, and it went from he had turntables To it was this big huge like reel to reel machine that you could just like put carts into that would turn and play the songs in the way that he had it programmed. So like, each song would just turn and you had these in there. Eventually it became for him satellite. So the music because it’s such a small town and he’s kind of a one man band in a lot of ways. It became where he would pull us out a live stream in and yeah, growing up with a dad in a tiny town owning a radio station means that I saw my dad is the GM, the sales manager, the engineer the morning show guy. I mean, he ran and did everything and he would have to you know, maybe three people at the most that would work for him. Maybe somebody up front and other person selling somebody work in the weekends but he has been on the air during that morning show consistently for I guess 44 years now.
Unknown Speaker 4:50
Still doing it still does it. Oh my god. Yeah. Yeah. That’s awesome. So I mean, you did you know, this is it. This is what I want. Oh,
Unknown Speaker 4:57
no. I Well, by the time that I was 12, my dad not shy like I am to just say like, Hey, can we come and hang out, you know, and I just want to meet people and network. He knew Bob still at CHANNEL SEVEN at K TV and at the time when I was really young, I would kind of do some little commercials and stuffs we would have to come all the way to Iraq, you know, an hour and 15 minutes from Clinton, which this was the big city. And once dad had to bring me in, he said, Let’s stop by K TV and want to say hi to Bob Steele, and maybe we can catch their newscast. We can actually watch it. So at the time, the newscast comes on, they tell me I can sit in the chair right next to the anchor. Of course, they have, you know, just a tight shot on her. But I’m sitting like right next to her just watching her do the news. And so I was that’s when I knew that I wanted to do TV in some form. That was the thing from the time I was 12 years old and I went to college Arkansas State in Jonesboro and I got my degree in broadcast news and got out of school and immediately got married and we moved back here to Little Rock where I actually did work for K TV but it was like the girl that washes the cars for the news director and gets coffee and I did get some experience though, as a field producer when they first put on Good Morning, Arkansas, this is in the early. This was around 2000 when I was hired and I got to do some associate producer type stuff for Daybreak so I got to do a little bit of that we moved to Jonesboro where at the time they only had k i t and applied for a job there and you know, I was thinking okay, this is it. Like I’m moving to a smaller market. I’ve been working at K TV so they’re gonna hire me and I’m gonna finally get to get on television. But they were like we don’t have anything so whenever to to talk to Trey Stafford in Jonesboro triple FM radio group and and said, Hey, you know, this was kind of like, I don’t really want to be in radio, but I don’t know what else I’m gonna do. So he hired me and he was Like, how you just kind of have a natural talent and you know, he is all the small town radio guys in Arkansas all know each other. So he knew you know who my dad was and then I grew up in radio. So he put me on the air. And when he started telling me like, you’re pretty good at this. I’m like, Really? Yeah. When people tell you, you’re good at something, you’re like, maybe I do like this. Maybe this is what I need to be doing something
Unknown Speaker 7:19
becomes like, yeah, I actually do want to so I
Unknown Speaker 7:23
did become very passionate about it. And I learned that I really liked entertaining and interacting with people and you know, answering the phone and just making people happy and playing music and I’ve always been a music fanatic. It’s in my family, my my dad a drummer. My mom’s a dance teacher like we’ve been around music my entire life. Are you
Unknown Speaker 7:45
a musician?
Unknown Speaker 7:46
I’m not I wish I were. But my daughter can sing like nobody’s business and brother’s a drummer as well. My sister’s musical so it’s in the family but on
Unknown Speaker 7:56
the other side.
Unknown Speaker 7:59
I’m like, Albert, There we go. They’ll tell me I can’t and I can’t sing but I know good music when I hear it. So I eventually went and worked for wi BK in Knoxville, Tennessee. We live there for a while I worked for also a car station there. So I wanted to point wine. And then we came back to Little Rock then worked in radio up until just four months ago. And now I work for thp 11. So finally, after all these years, my degree Finally, but the show that I do is still light hearted fun laid back. It’s a lifestyle show that features a lot of music. So I’m still getting now I’m gonna do the best of both, you know,
Unknown Speaker 8:38
yeah, you get to still talk and have fun and entertain people, but we get to see it right here now. Well, that’s funny, which ironically, that’s how we met was actually through doing a video project when you were a host at the point yeah 4.1 and graduated broadcast you you got into the radio business and you stay there for a long time. Yeah. How did you see it? That change and how did you adapt with that change along the way?
Unknown Speaker 9:02
Yeah, for sure. So when I first started in radio, actually I worked in I did work in radio in college. To me, it was just like, this is a job I can do. While I’m in college to make some extra money, it’ll look good on my resume when I go in and television, you know, wasn’t like something I thought would be a great career for me. So I did overnights which man I worked from 12 you know, from midnight until 6am on the weekends, and as college student and also on the dance team. That was tough. I mean, it was like I turned into this really grouchy monster through a lot of that that time. But my dad, I mean, gosh, like such a proud father. He’s like, oh, man, you’re on 100,000 watt radio station. I’m like, yeah, so what like, it’s midnight, you know, like, three in the morning. I’m just barely keeping my eyes open. I was playing a lot of like chumbawamba or whatever, like, a lot of the music at that time in the mid 90s, which if I hear those songs still to this day, but that was like basically A guy writing out, I’ve never been like on a station like that I’d played radio and my dad’s production rooms, you know, when I was after school when I was growing up, and I thought I knew how to do radio until this guy sits me in front of this control board. And I’m live for six hours in the middle of the night. And he’s he wrote out all of the instructions on a legal pad. And he just left it there. And I was like, Alright, we’re gonna figure this out. I just, there’s no dead air. And at that time, we had CDs. So we would have three CD players like stacked on top of each other, and you would pull your music for the hour, and then just hope you didn’t queue up the wrong song because on those days were like compilation CDs where it would have pop music, but it could also have like country music, or maybe like some rock music on there. And so yeah, there were times that you would actually queue up like George Strait on a car station, which is very weird. So you had to be really careful but so you know, that was all live shifts all the time. People working overnight. Voice tracking came in. So we didn’t have to be there all the time, but they still wanted you to be live like during the day on the weekends in case people were trying to call or anything were to happen to where now it’s like even on the weekdays, you might not even have live people in the studio, they’ve gotten to where it’s just a lot of syndication, like when I left iheart I was tracking stations all throughout Arkansas for me, I thought I was really cool because I’m like, you know, Ashley King radio network in Arkansas. I’m doing mid days, you know, in Fayetteville, Fort Smith, and here in Little Rock. But, um, but it just really changed and they they wanted to give the the concept of like, okay, you need to make it seem like you live there. So you need to go to Fort Smith sometimes and just show your face. You know, it’s it’s just kind of a weird, weird thing.
Unknown Speaker 11:52
So explain the concept of voice tracking because I think a lot of people you know, wondering don’t understand what what does that mean? Because like we said used to you sitting in front of a microphone. Yeah. And you hit a button and it plays a song. And then that song is over and it comes back to you on the right, you know, but that’s not how it’s been for a while.
Unknown Speaker 12:07
So everything you know, is digital now. All of the music, everything is is totally digital. And so musics already all scheduled for that day, but your program director and I think a lot of people have this misconception conception that, okay, so whatever the major radio group that you work for, they decide what everyone is going to play, nobody gets to decide. But that’s not true. Every programmer in every market can decide, do I want to add this artist? Do I want to, you know, how often do I want to play them how heavily or whatever, so that person schedules all of the music for you. I mean, I don’t get to pick it for my own show. But you know, people would do that. So anyway, that scheduled and then we go in, and there are certain places where we’ll show you like you talk here. So you go in and then it’ll play like the very end of that song. And then the very beginning of the next song so that you can do your intros. over those, and then it’ll play. Like if you’re going into commercial break. So you’re basically pushing like the arrow keys or start and stop recording
Unknown Speaker 13:07
play or whatever. So in 30 minutes you’re recording an hour’s worth of show.
Unknown Speaker 13:11
Yeah, yeah. So
Unknown Speaker 13:14
like when when I was working for I heart and now I was doing mid days, the 10 to three timeslot and I was on the three different stations, it would take me the majority of the day just because I would sit in there and I would do like, you know, the first block of Kissin and then the the SEC then I would go in and do the first block of kicks 104 and then the first block of a mag 99.1 I would get those done and then I would start it all over so that way I can keep it straighter otherwise I would be saying the wrong station on like, you know, I would say came back on Kissin which happened many times. But yeah, so that would take quite a while and people would say so you’re not laughing. I’m like, well, it’s weird because you’re not like live live, but I’m sitting there and I’m doing it probably maybe five minutes before goes on air sometimes maybe sometimes it’s 30 minutes before it goes on air, but because I was in so many stations and, and I think a lot of people think too that, you know, you’re like, Oh, you can stream on it, you do all of those stations, all of the brakes go on. But now I had to do each station because all of the playlist all of the logs were different and had to throw in those call letters, or whatever. So yeah,
Unknown Speaker 14:21
was the transition from the old CD player days to the voice track days. Did you enjoy one side more than the other? Or was it something that you easily adapted with?
Unknown Speaker 14:32
So um, it was definitely nice because you could go to the bathroom. Like when you had CDs or records It was like let me put on the longest song possible so I can run down to the restroom. But it also made it kind of boring you know, because you’re just sitting in there waiting for your you know, now I can push the the mic button and talk. And then you start the music backup. So there wasn’t a lot to do in the meantime. I mean, it’s like when I was on I wanted to put one in Knoxville, I would always talk I was gonna get in trouble because I wanted to go to this was before like Facebook and you know social media, but I wanted to go online and like go to people calm and read, you know gossip and stuff and it was it would be pretty boring just sitting in there waiting for those next heartbreaks, you play like four songs and then you could talk you know, so it definitely made it a lot more interesting when you could play your your own music and you felt more like a DJ and more hands on. Those are the good old days of radio but I mean, there were benefits there are pros and cons to both of them sure. But it just made it more more streamlined in a lot of ways to
Unknown Speaker 15:39
another thing I think that’s interesting with with the whole DJ radio personality and then conversely with with TV personality as well is
Unknown Speaker 15:48
you know, consumers of the music or of the show.
Unknown Speaker 15:52
We hear you or we see you based on that world. Yeah, but it’s it’s interesting because it’s different than like a newscaster personality who is it’s them, it’s their personality, but but they kind of do a consistent thing. Whereas you, especially when you get out in the community and you meet people on, you know, remotes and all these kinds of things. So there’s kind of like two sides to being a personality. It’s like the side that people don’t see in the public, but what you’re portraying, and then there’s the actual, like, the real me or the person that’s out there, right? Was that something that came easy to you as you kind of progress through
Unknown Speaker 16:26
things? So my whole concept was people want to listen to people they can relate to. And I feel the same about people that are watching the show on thp 11 that I’m on now. I mean, I, you know, I just want to be real and try to be relatable to people. I think radio that’s part of radio, if you’re doing it, well, you’re, hey, you know, I know it’s it’s 230 you’re probably driving to pick your kids up from school right now. You know, you’re always trying to find those ways like that you can relate to someone so they’re like, oh, man, she’s just like me or she gets it. She knows what I’m doing right now. was a big thing to me to always, you know, hey, it’s lunch or before you head back to the office or, you know, just always find those ways to talk to people that they could relate to just be myself, you know, it’s not like I’m trying to, like, how can I talk to these people, you know, I just but I just want to be honest and real. And I feel like that’s what people want. They, you know, people want you to be authentic. I think that’s why we see so many reality TV shows, instead of scripted shows doing so well. You know, YouTube channels that are blowing up people making money off of blogging their lives. We like to see how people live their lives. And we want that authentic authenticity, right? Well,
Unknown Speaker 17:40
I preach all the time. That you know, I think authentic. Authenticity is a big buzzword and a lot of storytelling and media creation, things like that. But what what that really boils down to is is human to human connection, right? We don’t want to lose that human to human factor. We don’t want it to necessarily even be a one way conversation anymore. Which is A great segue into the idea of now digital is taking huge strides. We’ve talked a little bit about this previously, but talk about how digital has has sort of influenced or enhanced or taken away from sort of this over the air broadcast world that you’ve been around for so long.
Unknown Speaker 18:20
Well, it’s funny with radio, sometimes we would have never have known what our favorite radio DJ looked like, you know, the days before social media and now it’s become where you need to be great on social media. I mean, that if you look at people that are hiring for on air personalities, you’re like, you got to be great on air. But you’ve also got to be great on social media. I mean, that’s just part of the job now. There’s so many more concepts so much more to it. But that’s definitely something new compared to. I mean, I still I would still get on radio like Wow, you look nothing like you sound you know. So there are those people that don’t, don’t Have a clue. They just hear you on the radio. But then there are also people that get really invested in, okay, well, who is this person, I want to know what they look like, I want to know what their family life is like, they want to know everything about you. But it’s cool to have people that actually care. You know, it’s very flattering that they want to know, but if you’re not doing your job on social media these days, and I mean, that was just a huge part of the job, and radio and on television. You know, it’s always about how many, like even at th v 11, they have a board that shows every single person that’s on air and where we stand, like who’s killing it? Like, really? Yeah, I mean, they tap into all of our social media to see like, okay, you posted this many times. This is how many people are interacting with you. I mean, it’s, that’s Yeah, it’s just all promoting, you know, the station and getting back to to the station, the more that we create a brand for ourselves, the more it helps thp 11 or the radio station you work for or whatever company you work for.
Unknown Speaker 19:57
Yeah, well, and I mean, again, back to when The first project we ever worked on was doing content outside of the radio station or you know for the radio station, but just other ways people can interact and
Unknown Speaker 20:08
we see that the you know, the on air personalities that are becoming more and more popular are the ones that are having a huge following on social media. And I think that it’s it goes both ways. You know, they’re popular on the radio so people are following them but then you also got the people that have just found you on social media that are now gonna listen to you on the radio or watch your TV show. Yeah, so it goes hand in hand
Unknown Speaker 20:28
well back to I heart and syndication but Bobby bones right great example of huge social media following ended up putting him on Dancing with the Stars and the dude one because of the votes Yeah, he had that much of a following Yeah. And you know, wasn’t the best dancer was good enough to get decent Yeah, whatever. You know, with the stars. I don’t watch it I probably
Unknown Speaker 20:48
Bobby it was they were all everyone was super surprised that he won but it did come down to. I mean, it’s definitely gonna help when you can advertise on the radio. Hey, watch. Me, you know every week and then also you have that social media following every single one of the I heart country stations were all tweeting including the station that I did the digital media for and social media at the time we were getting messages like, hey, make sure you’re you know, live tweeting Bobby tonight and like, I didn’t know what to watch Dancing with the Stars. But I guess I’m going to now so I could live tweeting about Bobby, you know. So yeah, what a great push he had. I mean, it all came it really did come down a lot to social media following for sure. That’s
Unknown Speaker 21:26
crazy. What’s along the way throughout your career in broadcasting as a personality? What’s been something that’s been really difficult that you at the time, were like, Oh, this is crazy, but but then you look back and you’re like, that was actually probably a really good thing or a good push or a good transition in the industry.
Unknown Speaker 21:42
Yeah. Oh, my gosh, the whole time I worked with a consultant and radio. I felt like everything he was just to do. There was a lot of that. Oh, no, there’s just been there have been so many changes. I mean, every time that there’s a change, I feel like people are like, no, we’re not gonna, we’re not gonna like this. We’re not going to do it.
Unknown Speaker 22:00
You know when will the industry survive I know that’s been talked about always TV gonna survive is radio gonna survive but yeah
Unknown Speaker 22:06
for me, you know when I was doing three or even five radio stations and getting paid for each one of those stations I was like this is awesome. I love the fact that I can do all of these stations Waco, Texas, Tulsa, Oklahoma, all of that from Arkansas, you know, so I loved it at the time but then you also hate to take somebody else’s job you know, you hate to see that that midday position or that night position whatever being replaced by somebody in a different state. It’s great for the person that’s doing it it’s awesome for Bobby bones or whoever to be on every single I heart country station but you know, you just hate to see those local morning show talents not be there anymore that connect with the local audience. So I don’t know it’s just really tough. It’s great if you’re Bobby but it’s it’s horrible if you’re Bob Robbins or somebody that used to be on kiss, and you know, of course, Bob is still has a great career in radio. He’s a legend of course. There are a lot unhappy people, you know, when he moved from kissing over to the wolf, but yeah,
Unknown Speaker 23:04
when and recently just to kind of wrap up this theme, but you know, we were talking about all the crazy changes going on you left I heard a few months ago and then real recently there’s been a lot of just kind of transition and change in industries just or at least the corporation is shaking things up quite a bit. What’s your kind of initial take on what’s happening? Is this a good thing or a bad thing?
Unknown Speaker 23:31
I don’t know. I mean, you see I heart really trying to compete with major streaming services, Pandora, Spotify, you know, they’re also really wanting to push their podcasting. And they even mentioned that they’re trying to go up against like Facebook and Google these major major companies. So you kind of wonder like, Okay, well, what do they want to be? I know that digital is huge, you know, it’s just a huge, huge push for them. They feel like that Guess you know that’s where the money is. But there are several radio companies that are still around that are thriving, and there are still some that are up and coming. You just don’t hear as much about them. So I think that gives the impression like, wow, radio is dying. It’s not a relevant form of, you know, broadcasts anymore. I don’t believe that at all. I mean, it’s really sad to see somebody’s job is eliminated. But I don’t know, I wonder if I Hart’s gonna go away from just the radio side of it so much, and they really want to focus on the podcasting. I mean, it was just in the last year or two, they bought like spent like, like a $50 million company, a podcasting company. So you know, they’re constantly trying to expand. I think they just want to take over every aspect of, of audio. If it has to do with audio, it seems like they want to be a part of it and they want to rule that and so that’s really what they’re going going for, but then they’ve got to kind of streamline some things to make that work. Unfortunately, it seems like radio in some aspects are radio jobs, you know, some of these these positions Have him kind of hate the word suffered. But you know, I mean, if you’ve lost your job, you feel like you’re you’re suffering I’m sure,
Unknown Speaker 25:06
well, a lot of industries, you know, things are consolidating, and technology is, is allowing for more things to happen with fewer people. Or it transitions those people into different types of jobs because you still have to have people put on the podcasts and do all these things. It’s just they’re not on air personalities anymore. They’re not program managers, whatever it is, and unfortunately,
Unknown Speaker 25:24
the more you can consolidate those, there are still the job might be easier because now you have a computer that can do it, but you still have have to have people that kind of oversee it, that are still doing things. So you’ve got one person is kind of wearing five hats. And, you know, it’s physically and mentally draining. I feel like the morale and radio. That’s one of the reasons why I was like, you know, I don’t know it was a little draining the morale morale seemed to be a little bit down you kind of always looking over your shoulder like in my next you know, and it’s just that part is kind of scary and I don’t think it’s like that at every company and I have no ill will toward I Heart Radio were the people I worked with, because I worked with some great people. And they’re still, you know, and I’ll say people mentioned like, I’m not supporting iHeartRadio anymore because they fired my favorite personality. Well, there are still a ton of great people very talented that work at these stations that you know, need support and want you to listen to the station. You know, when I was there, I would hear that too. Well, they let go of whoever, I’m not listening anymore. I’m like, Oh my gosh, please listen, I need the ratings because I need a job. You know, so we, we, if you’re not listening, you’re not supporting and it’s just gonna get worse. So you just yeah, you hate to see it, but you’ve got it. I feel like mentally people are strained. Mostly people are strained in these jobs. And there are less and less jobs but it’s you know, we have computers doing it, but it’s still puts a lot of strain on people.
Unknown Speaker 26:46
When I talk about this a lot, too. We kind of mentioned already but the human human connection, like we don’t want to lose touch with the people in our communities, the you know, the local,
Unknown Speaker 26:54
that’s the whole that’s the whole FCC, you know, law like gets your radio stations are community based community oriented. Your whole purpose of having a local radio station is to serve your community bottom line. And you do wonder like well, the the more that we are pulling away from having local jobs on or whatever, how are we really serving our community? And so you know, you’ve got these you’ll hear these public service announcements played or you’ll have like these little community shows where somebody comes in and out Sunday morning, in the middle of the night when no one’s listening, you know, we’re playing this 30 minute show to meet those standards, but there’s just nothing like being on the air like in the old days when a tornado outbreak is happening. And you actually have someone in the studio you know, those are the days that I missed, you know, back when I did radio in one second, I could be talking about the newest Jason Aldean song and then the next second, we could be talking about a bombing in Boston at the marathon or the next second we could be talking about a huge tornado, you know, severe weather is radio DJs. We covered all of these things. We could go from fine contests and sing parodies. songs and making videos to talk about stuff that was really serious. But we were also connecting with those audiences. And we had regulars that would call in and they trusted us and we were their go to. Now, you know, it’s like, I don’t know, you just don’t have that as much. I still love radio. And you do have that in the smaller markets and the Clintons and the Heber springs with my sister. And, you know, first thing my dad does, if he hears a tornado siren is jumps in his car and goes to work, you know, to go down there to make sure he’s broadcasting to the entire, you know, Van Buren County area to make sure everybody is safe. That’s radio, that’s what radios is supposed to be, you know,
Unknown Speaker 28:39
well, and I love it too, because now you know, everything’s data driven. And the music becomes, you know, how many hits as a gun on a Spotify or whatever. And that’s what sort of makes these musicians rise to the top. But it was also fun. I remember, you know, you hear the excitement in a DJs voice like, hey, there’s new music from songs. I was out, you know, You guys are gonna love it. And it feels like now it’s like, well, we already know we’re gonna love it because the data says we’re gonna love it, you know, so you kind of lose that that personal mentality of what personality is.
Unknown Speaker 29:10
There’s a lot of science to radio, there’s an art to radio. And sometimes, if you have a great program director, they have that instinct and they can, they feel design, they can read the science, they can study the science, but they also are very creative. And they they’ve got that, you know, the art part of it down to sometimes I feel like people, they rely too much on that scientific, you know, well, it doesn’t test well with this audience or bubble. It’s like, Well, okay, but do you think it’s gonna be a hit in Arkansas? Do you think Ashley McBride and Arkansas artists is going to do well here even though it’s not testing well, and whatever, you know, we need to fill our audience we need to know what they want to hear. I think all of that plays a part in I’m not saying that like the science part of it, the test, the surveys, the studies, whatever, don’t play a part of it, but you’ve got to have a good balance of all of that and you need to be in tune with With your audience in know what they want to hear.
Unknown Speaker 30:02
Speaking of Ashley McBride. Nice little, I believe it’s tonight she’s on Jimmy Fallon.
Unknown Speaker 30:07
Oh, yeah, she was just on the Today Show as well. Okay.
Unknown Speaker 30:10
So yeah, she’s, it’s fun to see her kind of take off. I remember going once live at Reno’s Gosh, years ago Reno’s
Unknown Speaker 30:19
used to play the tavern ally. Last time I saw her before she signed her major deal. It was in Fayetteville, just some fundraiser and she’s just walking around you know, having a good time chatting with people and next thing I know she signed this major label deal and is opening for Eric church or something just crazy.
Unknown Speaker 30:38
So we bring up musicians now want to go down this road. Again, a two second glance at your social media and you’ve rubbed elbows with every major musician out there. who stands out like I mean, that had to been so good in the radio business to just go get to meet all these people. Definitely fine.
Unknown Speaker 30:58
Is anybody stand out. Did you have Which is like a great time getting to meet certain people.
Unknown Speaker 31:01
Yeah, I think I’m one of my regrets. My favorite is Keith Urban and for some reason I never got a chance to just even like walk through a meet and greet line and meet him and take a picture. But Luke Bryan was definitely most fun experience most down to earth. We met him backstage when it was Verizon arena. And he has a radio room or you know radio you’d get you’d have the meet and greet line where people could go through and meet the artists so it’s basically walk up Say hi, get your picture made walk out and the next person walks up but then if you’re in radio, there’s a room they set up they have a bar you go in you just kind of chill on some couches and then that person comes in they want to hang with you and you know make you feel like you’re real special and then you know, hopefully you’re gonna play their next song but but no, you do feel like you’re you’re important and you can kind of just hang out in the air until the show starts with Luke. It was literally like this was before to the massive shooting in Las Vegas where security is a lot tighter now, but I It was, I mean, he was like, hey, this, make yourself at home, he was like, you can go to your seat, you can come back in here. I mean, we just had, like free rein to do what we wanted. We’d go, you know, fill our drinks up and go back out and watch his show. And he was so personable. And then after the show, he just had a big old party backstage music plan. I mean, the whole room was just filled. And my husband and I were like, let’s just kind of stand out of the way over here. You know, we don’t want to be a person finding all over someone like, Oh, my gosh, you’re so cool. Um, but he came over, I think he was just kind of like, you know, they’re, they seem kind of normal. So he came over and just sat there and talked to us forever. About eight months later, we saw him when he was on his farm tour. And he was at a prairie Grove up in Northwest Arkansas playing that big farm tour show. And this was one of those like, let’s don’t bother and let’s just we had our kids with us. Let’s just go through the meet and greet line and not say anything. And he stopped. He’s like, Oh, my gosh, I remember you guys. So you’re like, you know, you’re like he’s cool. Like, what a nice guy. He’s just he was doing personable and now he’s on American Idol and this big huge star but he’s one guy that you’re like, I want to be friends with him. Yeah, so he made a big a big impact but yeah,
Unknown Speaker 33:09
it was it was cool. Another guy I’ve had on the on the podcast Dan wise artist manager out of Nashville I asked him a similar question Who’s your favorite? You know, and he said bikes out and for sure, really? He just said he’s such a great just down Earth person. Like he’s
Unknown Speaker 33:24
the same guy all the time. You always hear that? Yeah, so I wasn’t a Blake Shelton music video for like half a second. Oh, really?
Unknown Speaker 33:32
Tell me about that. How did that happen?
Unknown Speaker 33:34
So I was living in Knoxville, Tennessee at the time and I don’t know how this even really happened. But his I’m not a part of the spam club. But I felt like I got like a an email to be essers I think is what they’re called. And it said if you want to be in a like, I don’t know how I saw this. Honestly. Maybe it was it might have been in like one of the trade magazines for Country radio people too, if you want to be in his music video. fill this out. I was like okay, I’m gonna fill it out. Emily’s get this like email back it’s like all right show up at some bar in downtown Nashville during the CMA Music Award or the CMA Awards. I guess that’s kind of redundant the Country Music Awards the CMA Yeah, this is um and we’re going to be shooting so we me and a friend we show up and yeah, they were just getting like fans basically got your cameo. So yeah, that’s that’s like to say that I was in a video and somebody came up to me and he had like a really beautiful like model and one of his videos and like, I think I saw he were he that girl on this on somebody? I’m like, Oh, yeah, that was me the girl in the bathtub Yeah, that was me
Unknown Speaker 34:39
is that what prompted the video that we made?
Unknown Speaker 34:42
Yeah, so similar.
Unknown Speaker 34:44
Yeah. Hopefully that’s not on the internet anymore but I don’t know Oh my god.
Unknown Speaker 34:50
All right, back to TV. You finally made it to TV the way the way you wanted to cuz you were doing TV commercials. You never were away from cameras necessarily. Right? Been doing this What for a
Unknown Speaker 35:01
year your divine is a year old. Okay,
Unknown Speaker 35:04
so how’s that process been? Is it is it everything you wanted it to be when you were in college and knew you wanted to be on TV? Or is it is it totally different
Unknown Speaker 35:12
man, I’m doing this, but in a different way where that I thought I wanted to talk about, you know, politics and, you know, fires and murders and now I’m talking about lots of fun stuff. So it’s definitely the best of both worlds. I’m doing television but doing it the way I want to do it. We’re entertaining people and it’s light hearted and I just definitely like fine. That’s, I’ve learned. If it can be fine that I can stay passionate about it. You mean everybody wants to enjoy what they do. For me, I think that’s very, very important. But it’s funny the way that the vine happened when I was doing the morning show on point with Drew Mitchell,
Unknown Speaker 35:51
apparently under steel as
Unknown Speaker 35:53
we like to call him get herself we had ever we did a classic rock show together. But if we had done a country show together, Drew was going to change his name to gunners, do. We? These are the OFF AIR conversations that we would have like when the music was playing like we were on Country radio, what would your name be, you know, stupid stuff. But we, we did that show together. And I guess the news director Dave Parker at dhv 11 listened to our show. And I was invited to go on th v 11. Once by Tom Brannon on the morning show to do, I don’t even know I was there. I don’t know. I came in and did something crazy. And that guy was like, you know, I’m gonna we’re gonna put her on TV one day. I don’t know how but we are. And that was back in like 2014. So in 2018, I get a call from Dave Parker. And he goes, we may be putting on this new lifestyle entertainment show at 9am on th v 11. We’re looking for a host and this was like in July. The show didn’t go on the air until January. So he says this in July. I’m like, Yes, I’m so excited. I didn’t want to leave radio completely. Always. When very passionate about radio and loved it and but I would definitely wanted to do this TV show. And so he said that in January, and then we didn’t sign a contract until the November so from January to November, I was just thinking like, this is not gonna happen, something’s gonna happen. They’re gonna find someone better. They’re gonna decide they don’t like me. But it all went back to him listening to our morning show, which was crazy. He thought, you know, she has personality. She can carry her own, you know, kind of sassy sometimes, like she’ll be perfect for this. So, yeah, finally, January 7 of 2019. We went on air. That’s awesome. Here we are a year later.
Unknown Speaker 37:34
It’s such a great show. It’s so fun. It’s easy to watch. It’s not something that you’re gonna just be like, I’m gonna tune out
Unknown Speaker 37:40
tonight. Some days I feel like I want to tune out on myself. So I don’t know
Unknown Speaker 37:46
why you fake it. Well, I guess. So where do you see the show going? Where do you see the industry going? What do you what do you predict for the future?
Unknown Speaker 37:56
Um, well, I feel like the show is doing great and it’s only Getting better. You know, when I first started, I was a nervous wreck, you know, having to look at a camera. People are like you’ve done this and like, yeah, I’m in a room by myself. This is different than having to read, you know the teleprompter and talk and listen to people talking in my ear at the exact same time I’m doing all of this. Even my dad the other day, it was like Ashley, you’re just so comfortable now, you know, compared to kind of stiff and nervous when you first started. So yeah, I feel like it’s only getting better because we’re just figuring out exactly how we want the show to go. And we’re all getting a lot more comfortable in the roles that we play it. We’re really figuring out what we’re doing. So it’s exciting to see where we’re at may go. We’re always trying new things. Teach v 11. is so great about just being innovative and thinking big. And so who knows what we’re gonna do next. But yeah, I don’t know. I may be doing. They’re letting me do sweep stories. You know, we have data stories on country artists from Arkansas that are kind of up and coming and we had he’s Sanders, Adam Hambrick and Matt stelae and Matt signed a major label deal and had a number one song since we talked to him. We did rock and roll history. Did you know just meet amazing people doing these stories where I get to interview people like Bill Carter, who was the lawyer for the Rolling Stones. He was a secret service agent during the JFK era. And then I’m working on a story right now with Mr. Al bell of Stax Motown Arkansans. I just love telling stories about our Kansans. And we get to do that, like I would do on the radio, but also visually in you know, it’s, it’s really fun. So I hope I get to grow that more and more.
Unknown Speaker 39:35
That’s awesome. We’re gonna have al on the podcast, one of my favorite people, he’s fantastic.
Unknown Speaker 39:41
He’s got a great story. I love him
Unknown Speaker 39:42
to death. He’s such a good, just good soul.
Unknown Speaker 39:45
He said, had a good spirit, and made me feel important. And he said, Let’s get together. You’ve got a good spirit. I can. I can feel these things about people. But then I was like, I wonder if he says that everybody
Unknown Speaker 39:54
said that to me too.
Unknown Speaker 39:57
But you know what? I felt really
Unknown Speaker 39:58
good in that. That’s right. That’s that’s What makes him who he is?
006 Titans of Industry | Dan Wise
Titans of Industry | Episode 006
Expert Insight on succeeding in the competitive music business
Summary
In this episode, I sit down with Dan Wise, a Nashville artist manager in the music business. Dan talks about how “fake it until you make it” actually works, how he opted for practical experience over an academic path, and how hustling helped him end up on a management team that is home to artists like Kelly Clarkson and Blake Shelton.
View Transcript
Unknown Speaker 0:00
I have this really interesting view on life. I honestly don’t feel that someone has to lose in order for someone to win. I feel like everyone can win
Unknown Speaker 0:08
and you can have it all. Hey, it’s Nate Disarro and welcome to titans of industry, the podcast where I talk to industry leaders and innovators who are at the top of their game and leading the pack in their fields, uncovering some of the best stories in today’s business landscape. In today’s episode, I sit down with Dan wise, an artist manager in the Nashville music industry. Dan talks about how fake until you make it actually works, how he opted for practical experience over an academic path, and how hustling helped him end up on a management team that is home to artists like Kelly Clarkson and Blake Shelton. And now let’s get to the episode. But before we do, it’s important to know that whether you’re a small business owner or the face of a multibillion dollar industry, your organization has a great story to tell, and content Titan wants to help you tell it. We’re a digital content creation powerhouse built for the 21st century Providing all in creative strategic production post production and distribution services for a 360 degree 24 seven world. In our world Titans are passionate, creative doers. They have the experience to take your project from start to finish, minimizing your involvement so you can focus on what matters most running your business. So if you’re ready to take your content, strategy and production to the next level, our Titans are ready to help.
Unknown Speaker 1:28
Now here’s my conversation with Dan wise.
Unknown Speaker 1:33
Alright, so we’re here at starstruck entertainment in the green room. I don’t know how many people have come in and enjoyed this this facility. But here with Dan wise Dan, it’s great to be with you today. Thanks so much for taking a few minutes. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 1:46
Thanks for having me.
Unknown Speaker 1:48
So just want to jump right in and get your background. Where are you from? How did you get into the music business?
Unknown Speaker 1:55
Originally from Las Vegas, or a little suburb called Henderson, Nevada. And in high school moved to the end of high school moved to San Diego. So I spent a lot of time there but music business you know, I started in high school I was really excited. So, you know, playing in band in junior high, and I’ve always wanted to be the leader. So in junior high playing band, I would go to the teacher and I would say, I want to conduct and she did she gave bought me a baton in a case and I got to Kentucky conduct the whole band, right. And so it was always kind of like taking that role of more of a leadership role in music. So when I started playing bass, I realized that the creative bass playing wasn’t for me, but I wanted to produce I wanted to be in the studio. So in high school interned at studios around Vegas, one of them was digital insight was what it was called. I can’t remember the name of the owner, but you know, I was probably 15 years old, you know, I have no idea what I’m doing in life and the owner of the studio is probably 28 years old. driving a Ferrari, you know, and I was just like, I thought that it was the coolest thing in life and watching all these local bands come up in this really awesome studio in Vegas. But I remember my mom driving me an hour every single day after school to go to the studio to watch Tim for me to go in and like watch this guy’s car and clean the bathrooms and you know, do all that, you know, just in hopes that I can sit in in one session, you know? And so But yeah, I was really interested in kind of that like taking a step back and the in overseeing, I guess the process of music. So
Unknown Speaker 3:34
from there I kind of really got interested in
Unknown Speaker 3:38
in sound, right? So audio engineering, so I started mixing live sound and doing some like technical theater stuff in high school and just kind of, you know, recording buddies bands and stuff like that in the house and got really interested in that, that process. So so when I moved to San Diego, just looking for any sort of random job, anything I could find and there was a audio company hiring to do to like build speakers or something. And I just needed a summer job before. The plan was to go to college in San Diego. And this audio company turns out to be one of the largest audio companies in the world as far as live touring production. So at 18 I got this job at this company called sound image and Escondido, California. And building speakers, which was horrible is the worst, because they weren’t like wooden speakers. They were like carbon fiber composite, like chemicals. And it was horrible. It was horrible. I mean, it’s a really cool company. People were great, you know, but that was horrible. So three months in I just went went to the boss and I just said that this isn’t what I’m made to do. So if you have another role for me, I’ll take it otherwise unfortunately, I’m gonna have to walk away and and I, you know, first person, you know, in the music industry, really That kind of gave me a shot with him and his name’s Rick Stanley out of San Diego and he really kind of was just like, Okay, well, let’s dive in and kind of threw me into the fire and within less than a year of being with that company, they put me on the road. And they sent me on tour with my very first professional tour was a country artists named Mary cheapened carpenter, she’s still around touring. She’s awesome. I remember that being my first tour and I’m 18 years old on a tour bus like well, this is this is great, you know, making more money than anybody my age and just really excited and and that just kind of led to more tours and more tours, more tours and college ended up being a distant, distant memory or distant thought.
Unknown Speaker 5:42
So I’m curious what you did on those tours, were you audio engineer,
Unknown Speaker 5:47
I was kind of a tech as I learned, and then, you know, when bands would have a support act, I would go mix the support act or whatever and just kind of that was kind of a definitely a learning process. When you’re 18, so no. But anyone from you know, I was a tech for a long time, but anyone from Mary chipping Carpenter to like Jimmy Buffett and you know? And yeah, so people like that. So it was great.
Unknown Speaker 6:16
So I started kind of from a tech side, you’re intrigued with audio and all the all the technical stuff, but then eventually, I guess it moved into more of a management role.
Unknown Speaker 6:26
Yeah, I think the first, actually I was still only maybe 19 or 20. And I remember the guy I mentioned a little bit ago, Rick Stanley, but still a dear friend of mine, and somebody that I respect more than anything that probably taught me the most about just being a good human being. His name is john schinsky. And he’s a he’s a good friend, business partner. He’s just a great guy. But he gave me my first real opportunity to be to production manage and to make sound for Jason Mraz when he was first. Coming up when his very first single broke, and he was starting to tour a lot, and I ended up working for Jason for a long time, but that, that experience and what he taught me about production, managing and kind of taking on a different leadership role was, you know, very important part of my life to kind of watch that. And what was the reason why it was so important for me, I think is because it was finally that point in my life where I was, knew that I could design my future. And so it was kind of that point of, you know, I’m an audio engineer, I’m a tech, right? Well, I want to be an audio engineer. So I just tell people, I’m an audio engineer, and I just go do it and figure it out. Right. And it was kind of like, well, who’s that guy’s boss? Was the production manager. Great. That’s what I’m doing. You know, that’s, that’s the gist. That’s the life I’m going to design for myself. And then from there, it was, you know, well, who’s the production managers boss or who kind of runs the tour? Oh, it’s the tour manager. Great. I want a tour manager. That’s what I’m going to do and kind of stepped into it. toward management role, so leading tours and building teams and doing that for years, and then from there same kind of thing is, okay, well, you know, who oversees the tours who see who oversees that part of it. It’s the manager, right? And so just kind of stepping into that management role and designing that, that path for myself. And I think, you know, as silly as it is designing your life and figuring it out, that’s kind of how it all worked. I mean, I literally told people, I was a tour manager, and I’ve never managed a day in my life. And they’re like, Oh, you are? Yeah, of course. Of course. Yeah. That’s what I do. And you get thrown into it, you create this opportunity, create this, you know, this person that you want to be, and you just do it, and you’re it and all of a sudden, it’s like, Whoa, I did it. I made it happen. Now what you know, what’s real fake it till you make? Yeah, yeah. So that’s kind of how that’s that, you know, really long story of how I kind of kept going down the management.
Unknown Speaker 8:55
So were you in San Diego most that time or when did you transition to Nashville?
Unknown Speaker 8:58
Yep. I was in San Diego. Pretty much that whole time.
Unknown Speaker 9:03
I moved to Nashville about nine years ago,
Unknown Speaker 9:06
there was an artist in town that was just breaking. And they wanted somebody to kind of build that team when he went to help him grow, build the team around them, brought me in as a tour manager, building his road team building his band, kind of building the family, and the culture around him. Really young kid. And we and I did that in this it was very successful. And he’s very talented. It was an amazing experience. And as it grew, it grew so fast. I ended up kind of stepping into more of a management role and just kind of handling day to day stuff between tour managing, you know, even audio, some audio engineering, just kind of like everything I needed to do to kind of help grow his career, and or just help support, you know, where he needed it. So do we get to hear who this first artist was managed. First move in here Yeah, his name was hunter Hayes. And yeah, he’s talented and amazing amazing musician amazing guys. Yeah, it was a it was quite a journey with him you know we spent eight years together and unfortunately you know just recently we we parted ways but no it was it was an amazing journey it was a really important time for me to to work with him you know coming into Nashville at that time something on the rise something as Nashville still just kind of growing and you know, the the country music genres changing a little bit and just kind of that that moment where, you know, country music is there’s a ton of people moving to town, there’s a lot of growth, there’s a lot of things happening and changing and moving. So came into town for that thinking it would just be maybe a temporary solution, I’m not sure and I never looked back. I never went back to San Diego, you know, just ended up moving out, had some friends move all my stuff out from San Diego, I never went back. That’s the best move I’ve ever made. That’s great.
Unknown Speaker 10:57
Yeah. And it’s safe to assume that when you Move to Nashville Nashville just started going nuts. Maybe we can attribute your moving here to the towns? I don’t know. Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 11:07
totally. No.
Unknown Speaker 11:11
No, it was man it was Nashville was an I kinda I think I’ve I stumbled across Nashville right at the beginning of that. When it started going crazy. I remember like, things like the Gulch, where they tried to build this little area of town. They couldn’t. It wasn’t working. There wasn’t enough buzz yet. And so I remember these, these condos, and the goal was that they couldn’t give them away. They I mean, they couldn’t sell these things, because it just wasn’t working. And where was I at that time? Yeah, exactly. And now you know, there are million dollar condos and it’s you know, right in the heart of downtown and it’s it’s an amazing spot but yeah, it’s it’s been amazing to watch this town grow and, you know, watch watch people come here and yeah, it’s it’s pretty magic.
Unknown Speaker 11:57
So I want to talk a little bit about kind of what artists manage It is how it’s different from working, you know, specifically for a record label. And then that relationship that comes with artists because like you said, sometimes it’s not a forever thing. What is that like as an artist manager and kind of the relationship with the artists? Are they normally long term short term contract based relationship based within the scope of the big picture of an artist touring and recording and all those things?
Unknown Speaker 12:24
Well, yes, it management is definitely relationship based. And, you know, I don’t think that there’s really a set structure on what management is some some managers have contracts. Some managers don’t, it’s a handshake deal. Some managers are very involved, some managers step back and kind of have some day to days handle it until it gets to a certain level. So some managers there’s some companies that you know, acquire other smaller managers and smaller artists, you know, just to be under their umbrella. There’s just so many ways about you know, how to manage an artist or Managing or what that relationship is, sometimes your your, you know, if you work for a company, you’re thrown an artist that hey, this is your new day to day manager. And obviously you build a relationship with those artists. Sometimes you’re, it’s your childhood best friend that has made it and now you’re, you know, you’re with them and you’re helping them grow. So I think it’s, there’s not really a set structure on what that is. But overall, as an artist manager, yeah, it’s relationship based. And, you know, our job is to, is to guide and counsel, an artist based on their vision and where they want to go with their career. So the way I describe a manager and this is just one way of looking at it is, you know, I’m holding this Lacroix can for people that can’t see but if you know if an artist is a Lacroix can and that artist wants to be in every single hand and every person in the world. How do we make that happen? You know, how do we come up with that vision in creative marketing strategy? Geez, you know, even from production or recording or producer, you know, what, what production facility Are we going to use? What distribution are we going to do use to get that Lacroix into every hand in the world, you know. So it’s very similar in the sense of as an artist, they want their music heard by everybody, right? As big as you can possibly get it. And so how do we do that? What producers do we record with? And that’s a you know, it’s a big collaboration, you know, with an artist at that level. You got to collaborate with everybody, right? You got to crowd collaborate with this record, label the band with everybody, you got to be in sync, I guess. While still kind of following the artists vision, making sure that we’re in you know, following that same path. So anything from the recording process distribution, marketing strategies, you know, once it comes time when when musics heard and things are going well. How do we build a tour around you know, what’s the tour look like? How many dates what markets are hot You know, are we? Is it working globally? Do we move into a global market? You know, what do we do there? So I think as a manager is just kind of advise and counsel those, you know, making sure that we’re in line with artists vision, and we’re making things happen there. I guess a lot of that all makes sense. Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 15:16
absolutely. And kind of in theme of how you sort of designed your career path, you know, from from saying, This is what I want to be I’m going to start telling people in this, is there a similar kind of mentality that goes into that with managing an artist as far as if they’re currently playing, you know, honky tonks and small bars and they want to start playing theaters. You kind of fake it till you make it or is it a very structured kind of streamlined path? Because I know that the game has changed a little bit over the last decade, especially with digital streaming and everything else has that impacted the the touring and, and the way that all happens as well.
Unknown Speaker 15:54
Yeah, it’s definitely changed and it’s, it’s, I think, just in general In your own business, my personal opinion is there’s a lot there’s a lot more ways to market a song and a product, I guess, or, you know, sticking with music, there’s a lot more ways to market it and get it out there. But that means there’s a lot more noise to cut through. Right. And so, I think that, you know, at the end of the day, the best song wins if it’s heard by enough people, right? And so, you know, yes, there’s a strategy but at the end of the day, the songs got to connect with fans in so but the beauty of today with digital is, you can kind of pivot on a dime, you know, you can put a ton of marketing dollars on one song and it goes, but you realize the other song you released on Spotify, just to put it out is blowing up, well, let’s pivot throw some money towards that song, and kind of grow that and, you know, you have to answer your question people that want to play, you know, people that want to play arenas. Yes, you absolutely have a have a vision and a path and a plan and goals and how to get it there. Uh, you know it all at the end of the day, the music has to connect, you know, the music really has to connect.
Unknown Speaker 17:06
Yeah, one of my favorite phrases is the market always wins, right? You can’t. Especially in the creative world, you can’t subjectively make something that you love, and then just force it on people and they’re never gonna see it the same way you do. I just had an experience with somebody creating great product. But it wasn’t what the world loved. And that’s okay. You know, you pivot, you move on. And you just keep at it. Yeah. I love Chris Stapleton, I think was talking about he has written you know, well over 1000 songs or some insane number. But he wrote most of them for him, you know, and then he he would write songs for other people, but he was like, as an artist, those aren’t the songs I want to play. And so for a long time he fought being an artist. And then eventually, you know, it came to fruition and he became what was it a musician of the year Newcomer of the Year? Yeah, I think so. It’s just interesting. How you know, in this creative world creative process? The market always wins.
Unknown Speaker 18:04
Yeah, period. Yeah. And that’s, that’s interesting that you say that I mean, I creative types don’t necessarily like this, this, this thought process in this viewpoint on it. But, you know, to your point, you know, again, if this Lacroix was the product, and I wanted it to taste like salt and pepper, because that’s my favorite thing. then great. I’m going to sell three cans of it to the people that want to go to that tastes like salt and pepper, right? Yeah. But you know, and that people put a lot of time and effort into that, to making a great product that people want to enjoy and love. And, you know, you got to keep that in mind. You know, there’s, there’s a ton of musicians that just want to open up and write poetry in their bedroom to release some emotions and feelings, you know, and some of those will connect with other people. Some of them won’t, but you know, you kind of got to realize that going into it, and there’s some people Go write songs that mean absolutely nothing to them just because that’s what the people want to hear, you know. So finding that lane that kind of satisfies both of those is I think the the goal.
Unknown Speaker 19:12
So, Nashville, I mean, I’d be interested in know the statistics of how many talented musicians move into this town every single day. It’s insane. If you’re a musician, and you’re ready to take that next step, how do you get an artist manager? How do you get to that point? Do you have to be discovered? Can you knock on the front door at starstruck and say, hey, you’re the hiring manager? How does that process work? What’s kind of the inside of getting to that point where you’re ready for a manager?
Unknown Speaker 19:39
I think it’s a little of both I I’ve told this story 100 times I just told it this morning, but there was this. this awesome pop singer this this kid from Florida, and he comes in and he comes to Nashville, and he’s getting ready to play the show and it’s coming from an artist. This means even more to me, but You know, he came, he made him to start talking great guy, forget his name, but great guy, great voice amazing artists. And he said, Man, I came to Nashville with this dream of like getting a record label and a booking agent and a publishing deal. So I can really make the music that I want to make. And I’m so excited. And he stops and He kind of looks at the sky a little bit, and he looks at me and he says, You like cupcakes? And I’m like, Yeah, man, where are we going? You like vanilla cupcakes? I’m like, sure, man, you know? Yeah, of course, like vanilla cupcakes. So imagine I’m on Shark Tank. And I tell all the sharks that I have the best vanilla cupcake. It’s the most amazing vanilla cupcake. It’s gonna melt in your mouth. It’s you’ll never have anything like this. And they get excited. their mouth is smell start watering. And they’re like, Okay, well, yeah. Do you have a sample? Oh, well, I I can’t really give you a sample and tell you you invest in me. And he said, and that’s kind of a mentality with a lot of these new artists is I’m going to come to Nashville and get a record deal and a publishing deal and a booking agent and they’re going to do the work and make me a big star. The reality of it is, is for companies to invest that much time and money into somebody, they want to see that it’s working, they want to see that they’ve built a market, they’ve built a story for themselves, they have a vision for their company, they have, you know, they have all these pieces in place, you know. And so, once you have that, and you’ve built that foundation, it’s easier to find a manager and a team to put around you. But if you’re just, you know, a kid that’s has a couple good songs that you wrote in your bedroom, you know, it’s really tough to find that, you know, to find that team that’s going to support that not saying that, it doesn’t happen, some people will believe in you and some people want to take that chance. But, you know, at the end of the day, people want to see that, that drive and that hunger and that, you know, I’m, I’m building it, you know, I’m, I want to build this thing and I don’t care who you with whether you’re with me or you’re against me, I’m building this, this future.
Unknown Speaker 21:51
So I love it. I love it.
Unknown Speaker 21:54
So let’s talk a little bit about where the music business is right now. Again, you’ve been at it for a while, from Both production standpoint, management standpoint, you’ve seen kind of ins and outs. But there’s a lot of talk that the industry has changed a lot. Again, digital streaming has certainly affected how album sales happen vivo and YouTube has affected how music videos are distributed and consumed. From your perspective, just where is the music business right now compared to where it used to be? And then conversely, where do you see it going?
Unknown Speaker 22:24
You know, as far as digital streaming, again, going back to how many ways to put music out there now there’s a lot and there’s a lot of talent out there. There’s a lot of artists out there. And you know, we’ve seen it now with like, Chance the Rapper and a bunch of other ones, right, you kind of can do it on your own and build a build a successful career on your own without, you know, Major support and, and, you know, I think that that’s the beauty of the digital age. You know, I think that there’s still a lot to be figured out as far as payment goes royalties, songwriters and keeping that keeping that alive and healthy. You know, So people don’t get burnt out. I mean, there’s so many people, you know, in this office upstairs, we have probably 20 songwriters upstairs right now. And their job is to write songs, you know, that’s their, that’s their life. That’s their career. And when you’re not getting paid on that, you know, when you’re in there working 40 hours a week writing songs. And you might make 20 grand this year, it’s really, really tough, you know, and I don’t think anyone wants to go to work 40 hours a week, and then go network and play shows and do all this for 20 grand a year. And so I think that there’s a lot to figure out. And 20 grand a year is an example. Like, don’t quote me on that. I don’t get all kinds of messages
Unknown Speaker 23:40
on that one. Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 23:42
I don’t know what they make. I really don’t I mean, it all depends, but it’s an example of, you know, how much work they put in and, you know, at some point that the pay is gonna equal out and so I think that there’s a lot there’s a lot to figure out as far as payment. I’m not saying it’s wrong or it’s bad. I’m just saying, you know, there’s a lot of There’s a lot to stay on top of to keep the arts alive, you know, to keep the writing process alive especially.
Unknown Speaker 24:06
Yeah, and in one regard it’s it’s much easier now to consume and get yourself out there and everything else but but it used to be so cut and dry, write a song, it gets on an album, you get paid, ya know, and it was very simple mathematical equation. And now it’s, it’s like, well, this song could end up streaming and hit millions of hits. And then who knows what that’s worth.
Unknown Speaker 24:26
Yeah. And, you know, everyone knows this, but just to kind of put it and put it in people’s face and just have people remember that, like, you know, as an artist, not just a songwriter, but as an artist. When you have a big team of all those people that I mentioned, a publisher, the booking agent, business manager, and attorney manager, you know, they all take a cut. And so, you know, everyone has a piece everyone needs to get paid. It’s a it’s a business and so when you get another person takes a cut, or those royalties aren’t paying out or whatever is not paying, you know, it’s really hard to be an artist or a songwriter. You know, Make make a living at it. It’s a fun hobby in your bedroom. But you know, it’s still people’s lives, you know,
Unknown Speaker 25:07
their career. Yeah, for sure. So, what do you think is kind of on the horizon of Have you seen anything fun or innovating or kind of exciting that you know, you’re looking forward to in the next few years as far as a music business is concerned?
Unknown Speaker 25:21
There’s so much to be honest with you. There’s a new company here pitching about some sort of AI recording process or voice recognition software or voice matching software and there’s just there’s so much going on right now that it’s who knows what’s next to be honest with you? I mean, who knows? The biggest part is just making sure that it’s connecting with fans, right? That’s the biggest part of the music industry. Is it connecting with the fan in the best way, you know, because fans fans kind of see right through all the all the noise as well. They just want they just want to connect they want to connect with an artist feel like they’re connected with an artist through their music. Through their personality, through their social media channels, or whatever that is. And when it feels like it’s not authentic anymore is when you start seeing people kind of drop off, especially in country music, you know, they’re, they’re so loyal to their fans, and they they, and it’s authentic. It’s true. They want to meet their fans, they want to be there, you know, story of Garth Brooks signing for 26 hours or whatever Taylor. I mean, that’s, that’s real, they want to do this stuff, you know, they don’t feel obligated. And so,
Unknown Speaker 26:27
so the human connection is never gonna go away. We always need to find ways to bring it back to that human connection. I mean, as a storyteller myself, it’s all about that exact same thing that how do you create a connection with the brand with the organization that doesn’t feel inauthentic that always allows for the viewer or the consumer or the fan, to feel like they’re a part of something. I saw this thing the other day, the Dallas Cowboys, they have this big display, I think at the football stadium, and there’s a camera and it’ll take the environment you’re in capture that environment. puts you back there and then through augmented reality it pops those players in around you there so now it looks like you have a picture with your favorite five players out there that was the coolest thing. Do any artists do anything like that that kind of gives you almost instant access even though it’s augmented reality
Unknown Speaker 27:15
actually Yes. What’s really funny about that is we just talked about that last night I’m there’s an app out there really great app that does like a lot of business to business called video bomb. And it’s amazing and they do the same kind of thing. Point your camera at anything he can point it at this Lacroix can and all of a sudden you have a you know, you pick it artists movie actor pop out of the Lacroix can kind of tell you more about it and just have augmented reality opportunities like that. So it is more and more and you can Yes, you can walk around to a to a concert Lollapalooza pointed at something and one of the artists will pop out and you can take a picture with them if that’s what you want to use. So there’s a lot of those happening right now. But also there’s a lot of I’ve seen a lot of app companies come out with like Virtual meet and greets where you can sit and actually have a FaceTime meet and greet with an artist just from your phone. You know, there’s, it’s Yeah, there’s a lot of access to artists now, you know, but I think you know, it’s scary because I feel like a lot of people now expect the access to the artist, you know, when we go to shows everybody expects to get backstage because they bought a ticket. Yeah. And, and they’re really upset if they don’t. And so it’s really, you know, because there’s so much access, it’s hard to, you know, it’s hard to navigate sometimes.
Unknown Speaker 28:33
I was having a conversation actually a couple years ago in LA with the marketing director for the Goodyear Blimp, and she was trying to come up with ideas, brand partnerships, different ways to market the Goodyear Blimp because most people don’t realize that is a 100% marketing effort for Goodyear. I mean, it’s it’s functional at football games, but it’s obviously marketing for Goodyear. And she’s like, we want to find new innovative ways to market and so at the time, somebody had come out with augmented reality where you point your phone Something in it sort of identifies that thing and it transforms it into something else. And so we were talking about like, you know what if we go to Lucas enterprise and turn the Goodyear Blimp, you point your phone at it turns into, you know, a ship from Star Wars or something, you know, so all of a sudden, you can take pictures of like, you saw one of the Star Wars ships flying through the air, but it’s really good your plant, but when it has to do with humans, does that get a little scary from an artist manager standpoint where people feel like Hey, I know I want to take a picture with this person. I kind of have a fake version of it. And I don’t know it just seems like there could be almost a line that people would cross because some pants get crazy. Let’s be on
Unknown Speaker 29:39
Yeah. And you know, I think it’s it’s definitely got to be branded as such in you know, there is a lot of there’s a lot of things you can do with a picture of you know, somebody that doesn’t know they’re there, right you can you can make some really bad bad examples and that can circulate the internet. So that’s, that is that can be scary for sure. I think that You know, there’s there’s a lot of things happening, where you’re using an artist, name, likeness, image, voice, without them knowing is a very scary thing, you know. So if they have a voice or an image or something that is offending fans that they didn’t even know they used, it’s a it’s, you’re going, you’re going the wrong direction, right? So it’s very scary and that’s part of our job is to kind of watch all that stuff and make sure that nothing Nothing like that gets out. Every pictures accounted for every you know, every interview, you know, is making sure it’s in the right hands.
Unknown Speaker 30:35
How much of what you see, I mean, just industry wide. You know, we see things all the time that we call fake news or this or that or the other because everybody now has access to cameras and video and we can post our own content everywhere we go. Do you see a lot of people doing the wrong thing with it?
Unknown Speaker 30:52
I think that there’s a lot of people that just want reaction, especially reaction on the internet. I think that there’s a there’s a giant amount of people a large amount of people in the world that is looking for the most amount of likes clicks, you know, these analytics to show that they’re popular and whatever that whatever that it takes to get there, they’ll do that whether it’s a goofy meme whether it’s a you know, politically incorrect video, whatever those things are, that’s gonna get a reaction. I feel like that’s what’s driving people some of the time.
Unknown Speaker 31:22
So not every artist or entertainer is this way, but a lot of them are great personalities, right? That’s part of what I think makes them who they are and likeable and great onstage. Do you have any good funny stories of any artists that come out that just you know that you like being around or that you’ve seen kind of behind the scenes do things that that most people might not know?
Unknown Speaker 31:44
I don’t think I have any specific stories. However, I will say that um, I think one of my favorite people of all times in this, this isn’t because he’s on our roster at all, but Blake Shelton is exactly what you see is what you get. I mean, he is Hilarious. He’s got the best personality. He’s always a great person to be around. I mean, he’s, it’s, it’s great, you know, even before I started working here and he’s in on a roster, I’ve toured with him for years. I mean, 10 years ago, we, you know, it was the first time we started working together. And, I mean, he’s just he’s that way, you know, what you see is exactly what you get. He’s just as real as it gets. He just tells it like it is and, and you just love him for it. You know? He’s I love I love Blake. But I wish I had some good stories for you. If I think so I’ll I’ll let you know.
Unknown Speaker 32:36
Yeah, well, that was definitely one of the things I wanted to get to was was sort of the artists under yells management and kind of who stands out but of course, Blake, you know, now he’s on the voice. And he’s a staple on a major TV show is that becoming more and more commonplace in the industry where people start to crossover as I would assume that affects his ability to put out new albums and tour and everything else, but or maybe it doesn’t?
Unknown Speaker 32:59
It does. definitely affects it in a in a good way. But, you know, the people that shine through on TV, I think it’s just a different thing. I mean, they’re just like you said, it’s personality, right? You have to have a big personality on TV for it to translate and and so with that being said, No, I don’t think it is for everybody. I don’t think it’s I don’t think some artists belong on TV, you know, just based on what you’re looking for. But But no, Blake, we have Kelly Clarkson on our roster, and she has her own TV show now. And she obviously is on the voice and she has the best personality. And you know, and it’s real. You these, they’re not putting on for TV, that they’re like that offstage, they’re like that if they came in, hang out with us right now, you know, they just have this great, amazing infectious personality. And that’s why they’re amazing on TV. You just want to you want to hang out with them, right? That’s just the kind of personality they have. And that’s that’s the kind of people they are.
Unknown Speaker 33:53
So is that just kind of back to the artists management side of things are those contracts are those Career moves still things that fall under you guys as artists, managers to help them make those decisions or when it goes outside of the music world? Do they kind of make their own decisions or work with other people on that? Or is it just a, whatever the situation is for that individual artists
Unknown Speaker 34:16
now there’s a there’s obviously another team of people that are brought into their world once you have TV, you know, maybe different agents, different TV agents versus music agents, and, and things like that. But overall management kinda is there to help guide the artist, you know, the best, the best moves for them, you know, advising counsel and making sure that they’re, they’re on point and looking out for the artists best interest, obviously, you know, whether it’s a record label, or TV or agency or whatever, everyone has their own agenda. And I’m not saying that’s bad, but everyone has their own agenda. And so just making sure that somebody is looking out for the artists behalf of the best interests of the artist.
Unknown Speaker 34:54
So you mentioned a couple people that have sort of been instrumental in launching your career that you still have great relationships today, who are some of the people that you continue to look at now and say, you know, that’s where I need to be or that’s, that’s kind of who I want to emulate, or that’s where I want to go. Do you have those people as mentors that are pushing you further and harder and since you’ve designed your career to this point, you kind of are looking at that next step.
Unknown Speaker 35:18
Yeah. I think that
Unknown Speaker 35:21
I honestly feel that the universe has brought me to this to this company for that reason. I honestly do. I think that the the owner of starstruck, norval Blackstock is my biggest mentor. I mean, he really is he’s just a brilliant man. And it’s the fact that I get to work with him every day is, is incredible, but he, he’s taught me more I think about this industry and management in general in the past year and a half and you know, than the 18 years of my career, you know, and he’s just been, he’s just been an amazing, amazing leader for the for the company and just for me, personally.
Unknown Speaker 35:57
So what do you personally do to kind of continue developing yourself growing, you know, are you a reader? What are the kinds of things that kind of push you further and further in your career.
Unknown Speaker 36:08
Um, I’m a nerd when it comes to personal growth and like, you know, self help and personal development and those type of books and, and learning and I’m really big on on mental health and just taking care of yourself. And I, they, I think that this is very cliche to say, I mean, everyone says it, but you know, if your inner world is not strong, your outer world is not going to be strong, your outer worlds, like crap, you know, and so, like, taking care of yourself first and making sure that you’re strong mentally physically healthy, you know, internally is going to give you a better chance of success externally, you know, once you can kind of take on that personal responsibility that you can design your own life, you know, but it all starts within you know, once you kind of accept that and understand that, you know, you kind of look at view the world a little bit differently, and you kind of have a for me personally, I have a much better success rate of happiness when I wake up I know that I’m on, you know, 80% or above on the happiness scale. Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 37:09
that’s pretty good. That’s a pretty good percentage. Yeah. So you know from a sort of tactical standpoint, what does that mean for Dan? What is the daily kind of best case scenario from the time you wake up to go to bed? What do you what do you do to keep that happiness above 80% or whatever
Unknown Speaker 37:28
exercise every day no matter what that’s that’s the one thing that I’ve learned about myself that mentally when I don’t do something in the morning mentally I’m just a little bit more drained everything’s just a little bit harder. And you know, for obvious reasons, you know, just getting that blood flow in first thing in the morning is is crucial for me.
Unknown Speaker 37:46
I have to cardio guy weights, yoga combination, all of
Unknown Speaker 37:50
it. Sure. Just something that’s you know,
Unknown Speaker 37:54
really loving. The company just got a peloton bike upstairs and I’m really enjoying that but Just anything really, I mean, I’ll even if it’s a light jog, even if it’s 25 push ups and you’re done, even if it’s, you know, 10 jumping jacks out of bed, whatever that thing is, that just really kind of gets you moving and blood flowing is really important to me. And that’s, that’s crucial. But, you know, I think, you know, meditation is huge. I mean, it’s, it’s very important and, you know, visualization imagery of what you want your life to look like, and what you want your even your data look like, you know, taking that few minutes to just kind of, you know, view what this outcome is, you know, a buddy of mine sent me a video of the Blue Angels and how they do this imagery in this chair flying and they walk through their whole process sitting in a conference room table before they even jump in the plane. I mean, from from the time they close that, you know, close the cockpit window or whatever, till the time they’re back on the ground, they they talk through and visualize the whole process. And, you know, athletes do it’s very important you know, all these mental skills coaches and you know, The mental skills team on every sport, every sports team has them, you know, and they do the same thing, the visualization, the imagery, the staying present, you know, versus getting in your head about what went wrong in the past, worried about what’s going to be in the future. That’s not going to serve you. Well, you know, you’re not going to be on your best, your best level, your highest level of performance. If you’re worried about those things. You know,
Unknown Speaker 39:22
you can get me geeking out over the Blue Angels, Thunderbirds, guys, I love to watch all their behind the scenes, they if you follow them on Instagram, they post some really cool stuff. But you’re exactly right. I think the mental preparation that goes into any especially, you know, at that level, there is no margin for error. But if you translate that down, why would you not do that for any important decision you have to make in life, you know, whether that’s designing your career, if you have a big meeting that day, visualize the outcome, and play to that, like if you’ve already visualized it, you can make it happen. Yeah. But I think that’s such a simple, tactical thing that most people Don’t even contemplate.
005 Titans of Industry | Hillary Blackburn
Titans of Industry | Episode 005
Expert insight on advanced pharmacy operations
SUMMARY
In this episode, I sit down with Hillary Blackburn, a Pharmacist who has created a career path that goes well beyond what you would think a pharmacist does.
Hillary covers everything from opioids, to how patients can navigate the current state of drug prices, to CBD, and we even get into her journey to becoming an author and empowering women!
VIEW TRANSCRIPT
spk_0
Now you see it in gas stations, Whole foods stores help stores, pharmacies. I mean, CBD. You probably see it everywhere.
spk_1
Hey, it’s Nate Dissarro And welcome to Titans of Image, the podcast where I talked to industry leaders and innovators who are at the top of their game and leading the pack in their fields, uncovering some of the best stories in today’s business landscape. In today’s episode, I sit down with Hillary Blackburn pharmacist, based in Nashville, Tennessee, who has created a career path that goes well beyond What do you think a normal pharmacist does. Hillary covers everything from opioids to how patients can navigate the current state of drug prices. And, of course, we dive into CVP and its place in the pharmacy world, and we get into her journey of becoming an author and empowering other women. And now let’s get to the episode. But before we do, it’s important to know that whether you’re a small business owner or the face of a multibillion dollar industry, your organization has a great story to tell and content. Titan wants to help you tell it. Wear a digital content creation powerhouse built for the 21st century, providing all in creative strategic production, post production and distribution services for a 360 degree 24 7 world. In our world, titans are passionate, creative doers. They have the experience to take your project from start to finish, minimizing your involvement so you can focus on what matters most running your business. So if you’re ready to take your content strategy and production to the next level, our titans are ready to help. Now, here’s my conversation with Hillary Blackburn. Well, Hillary, thanks so much for hopping on the podcast with us. Look forward to this conversation, so I just want to start by kind of getting your background. How did you decide you wanted to be a pharmacist?
spk_0
Yeah, well, thanks for having me, uh, great to be on this show. And, you know, I always knew that I wanted to go into medicine. Um, you know, from picking like Clara Barton, who was a famous nurse during the Civil War, is, you know, a childhood like kind of book report project and doing things like doing the National Youth Leadership Forum on medicine as a high schooler. Um, I always thought that I was gonna be a doctor. And, um, actually, it was during a scholar’s day at the University of Mississippi, Um, that I ran into one of the pharmacy professors and he talked me into doing early entry pharmacy. And so what that is is as a high school senior, they they accept 50 students and, um, you know, talked with my parents and they were like, This
spk_1
sounds like
spk_0
a great idea. You could do pharmacy and then go on to medical school. And so I really thought that was kind of the direction that I was going to go. But, um, really, after being in pharmacy school and getting Teoh getting exposed to all of the different opportunities within pharmacy, especially during that last year where it’s all rotation based and you’re rounding in places like in the E. R. Or in the I C. U and and working with interdisciplinary teams, um, I just fell in love with that area. It’s a great field for a female. More more females were going into pharmacy on, and so a little bit more flexibility, Um, and but still so many great opportunities within pharmacy. So
spk_1
So you finish your schooling you come out was your first job as a pharmacist. What were you doing right off the bat?
spk_0
Yes. So, um, actually, during school, I served it an intern at CVS at my in my home town, small town in Mississippi Delta, where I grew up. And so that was great. I was ableto get experience and make some money. Um and so but I kind of knew that that the retail pharmacy setting wasn’t exactly where where I wanted to stay, but had some great experience there, even a student. I, uh, had a little bit of a different turn in that I had interned on Capitol Hill, and that was just interning for a Mississippi senator and thought, Wow, how fun is D. C. And but how do I go back for pharmacy? And so, um, pharmacy is a small world, and there was an almost alum that was the director of the Office of Pharmacy Affairs, which is part of her sorry health resource Is and services Administration, part of HHS, and they administer this very big program called the 3 40 B drug program. And it is a government program where any manufacturer that is participating in Medicare has to give discounted drug prices Teoh safety net hospitals. And so, um, got exposed to that more of kind of a program. Aspects definitely always had a passion for underserved communities growing up in a in a rural town on in Mississippi. Ah, lot of impoverished areas and, you know, had that experience but really loved all the clinical things that I was getting to do at the Academic Medical Center in Jackson, Mississippi. And, um yeah, so I did a residency, actually, their residency programs for pharmacists, just like in medicine. And, um, yeah, and right. And right after I wasn’t quite sure exactly what I was gonna dio, I thought I was gonna go the hospital pharmacy route. And, um, you know, I was looking at jobs. Um ah, lot of times, many of the ones that are available for new graduates are your work in night shift or, you know, some of the hours just aren’t great or your staff pharmacists, and, um, I don’t know, none of those kind of really seemed Teoh be that exciting. I also have a pretty social and, um, you know, uh, work life balance is important to me having some weekends and, um, kind of didn’t think I wanted to stay in Mississippi and, um, a lot of, ah Ole Miss people and are in Nashville and made the major Nashville work for a family friend at an independent pharmacy. And that’s how I got to Nashville. So that was the first job out of school.
spk_1
So one of the things that I think is interesting about the pharmacy profession is when I think of pharmacist most of the time. And I think a lot of people think of CVS or Walgreens or your local judge store, and you got to go pick up this prescription. But it’s a much bigger world than that. So talk me through the different areas that people can get the jobs. And as a pharmacist outside off yeah, your local drugstore?
spk_0
Exactly. Usually that is exactly what people say. I say I’m a pharmacist and, oh, do you work at CVS or Walgreens on? And neither said, Well, I still will do a little main lighting at Walgreens. It’s great. Teoh, um, still had kind of keep my feet wet with retail lots of customer service there, but yeah, there are so many different areas of pharmacy practice got hospital, and I mentioned a few different areas of that. Um so, uh, that ambulatory care So pharmacists embedded in physician clinics And that’s a really becoming popular as more and more specialty drugs are hitting the market when I mean specialty drugs, those air more of the high cost, high management type of medications for like are a rheumatoid arthritis oncology, Um, those types of disease days. And so having a pharmacist managed the drug because it’s, you know, these drugs or thousands and thousands of dollars. So if patients aren’t taking them appropriately, um oh, they had a side effect. We get a kind of counsel them through some of those things. Eso That’s certainly an area you’re seeing more in pharmacogenomics say, looking at, um, you’re gene therapy. Um, you know, some people are fast metabolize er’s of medicine or slow metabolize er’s um, uh, working for the pharmaceutical industry working in for government academia. There’s a lot of different areas of practice. Yes,
spk_1
So you pretty much at retail institutional government. I mean, any any major industry, it pretty much there would be a pharmacist there. Yeah, and they kind of have their own world to live in. I’m always curious You’ve been at it for a few years now, but you’re not that old. And but I’m sure there’s been some transition, some innovations, some changes since you probably came out of school and or where do you see the industry going? What are some of the new trends innovations that you see happening?
spk_0
Yes, I would say the biggest thing happening is moving from that dispensing model. Um, so you know, pharmacists doing mostly dispensing to more, utilizing their clinical skill set. Um, and so more of the medication therapy management. Um, you know, do doing more within the doctors office, eso and the doctor is going to be doing all of the diagnosis and things like that. But a lot of times patients were coming in if they’ve got hypertension or are diabetes or things and they’re seeing a pharmacist to manage on titrate those medications s. So I think the you know, that inform attics is definitely a huge field data. You know, every industry you’re seeing data having more, more importance. And that’s certainly the case in health care is well and so having a clinical informatics pharmacist on your team is huge to be ableto Teoh manage different, um, order sets or predictive analytics of, like, disease states and things. So, um yeah, a lot. A lot of, ah changes happening, certainly in health care and definitely within the pharmacy profession. Seeing a lot in the news lightly about, um, you know what it looks like? Supermarkets are getting out of the dispensing space, so it’s not as profitable because you’ve got pharmacy finished fit managers or PBM that, um, drug prices are are certainly, ah, hot topic right now. And, um, it’s very complex process between the manufacturer and getting to the patient. Um, and I think that pharmacists can be part of that solution and helping patients navigate, um, how to make sure they can get access to their medicine. Um, and then that they’re taking it appropriately.
spk_1
It brings up a good point as well. I want to talk a little bit about GPO’s. Maybe the role of telehealth in how that plays into pharmaceuticals and getting those drugs to the patient with this is to your point about farms just working in at the retail level. It’s a lot of customer service. There’s a lot of things to go into that. But when you look at GPO’s and getting, you know, how does it get from the manufacturer to the patient may be skipping over the retail side of things. Theano is on approach. A few others mail order. There’s all kinds of ways so talk a little about how do you see that playing out in the industry? And how is that changing
spk_0
U. S. O. GPO’s air Great purchasing organisations You know health systems use those other groups use those so that they can increase their buying power. Eso they’re negotiating with either manufacturers or wholesale distributors to make sure that they’re getting the best price. And, um so it is interesting about what that best price is because you sometimes will get rebates. Um or, um, depending on, um, you know, health insurance plan. Um, that’s that’s often what you see when a patient’s going into the reef to the to the retail pharmacy setting is, um, you know what is their co pay? So, um, you know, you’ve got a copay, Uh, but first you gotta deductible. And that always hits the beginning of the year and so every January, patients air coming in saying
spk_1
this isn’t how much
spk_0
I used to pay for this and said, I’ve got to hit their deductible first and then they’ve got a copay, um, that, you know, is kind of an assigned number, and then typically they will And then that kind of shifts, which they’ve hit that deductible. And then maybe the plan is gonna pay for more. And so all of that kind of changes. And so being knowledgeable about some of that is is helpful. Um, and being able to kind of help me answer questions Teoh patients about, you know, why is my prescription this amount or, um, a lot of times, you know, patients will be started on a new drag, and it required requires a prior authorization from the doctor. And so maybe their insurance plan doesn’t have that drug covered, or they’ve got to do some kind of step therapy, and, um then you’re kind of in this triangle between the patients in the middle there at the pharmacy. But the doctor has to give their approval, and then the insurance company then approves it for the pharmacy to the spit, so it’s not very transparent. There’s not a lot of transparency right now and within the prescription, um, space. And so hopefully that’s something that they’re going to be addressing in the future. But, yeah, GPO’s. There’s a lot of big wins. Um, that can certainly help leverage. Good pricing. Um, out there. But, uh, not not all of those solutions are I mean, that we’ve got, you know, lots of different plans. Whether you know, the government can negotiate for Medicare prices and Medicaid prices. You know, that’s been proposed drug importation. Um, there’s some concerns about that. Um, there’s been a lot of proposals on how to lower drug prices, but it seems that a lot of those have been blocked. And, um, maybe not necessarily every solution has been quite the right fit. There’s been a few concerns, so hopefully will be ableto find some kind of solution. Maybe maybe after November when, um, you know everyone. All of the legislators are kind of their seats or saved on bacon can bring that back up. So we’ll see.
spk_1
It’s all incredibly interesting, and I think there’s just I mean, like most industries, there’s just so many nuances that it’s hard to figure it out with one conversation. There’s a lot of things to go into it another hot button topic that’s going around right now. Of course, there’s there’s kind of two sides to it. From the way I see it, there’s an opioid epidemic, Aziz, they say. And then now there’s a CBD revolution. And are those are? Is there any relationship between those and where do you see from pharmacy perspective, pharmacist Personal perspective, You know, What are we doing about this opioid situation? And then what’s going on in the CBD world?
spk_0
Yeah, so opioid epidemic kind of first. And there’s a great Netflix documentary out right now called the Pharmacist Eso. I was able to watch that. I think it just came out kind of early February. So it is a great story, and it describes a independent pharmacist. Our community pharmacists in ST Bernard Parish, Louisiana, which was one of the hot spots they were. That area was one of the top. They wrote some of the most prescriptions for OxyContin. Um and so actually, the drug manufacturer Purdue Pharma had all had all the data like who were the top prescribers in the country and somehow saying There’s a doctor that was a pill mill. She’s only open in the evenings. You know, at night people would wait outside Really incredible story about how he I lost a son and then started really noticed to drug abuse and then realized that he started taking note of people in his community that were young or healthy. And they started, they were getting prescriptions for OxyContin. And this is back when, um, you know, there was still some uncertainty on the amount of addiction um, that pain meds were causing. And then, of course, now we know that there’s a much tighter correlation and says a great story telling about how he was able to start doing some counseling to patients. And then he actually, it was able to kind of help flip this scale on this doctor and help supported the case to be over to kind of take down this pill mill. It was like the second biggest one. There’s another doctor out of Portsmouth, Ohio, and there’s a different book that I would recommend if people are really interested in the opioid epidemic. Teoh, um to read, um, what is that? But called? Um uh, I’ll have to think of it. You have to remember what it is. But now I can’t. Can’t recall that a really great one. And I’ll have Teoh room. I’ll have to look it up and get back to you. Um, but yes, I think it’s neat to be able Teoh, um, track some of those things. And, you know, there really hasn’t been a pharmacist in the media, um, with that kind of much public attention and so it’s kind of neat even here within the last week or so, I’ve seen where the Boston Red Sox are doing a pharmacist Appreciation Night s. I don’t know if there’s any kind of link there, but it’s like, Oh, there’s kind of some exciting things happening around the profession which is find so dreamland. That’s the book. Yeah,
spk_1
we’ll take a look because I think it’s interesting. I’ve known some people and told some stories of people who have had opioid addictions and just the way that it can ruin lives. Both end lives as well as lives that are still ongoing, and it’s just unfortunate to see that. But obviously there’s got to be other ways around.
spk_0
Yeah, lots changed. So now there are prescription monitoring programs where, you know, pharmacists are required to check the prescription database and so they can see if you came in and you were going Teoh, your doctor, shopping savior, multiple prescriptions from different doctors. Or we can also see what other pharmacies have you gotten this filled at? And so, um, you know, if you were came in to, you know, my Walgreens pharmacy and you had and I’m in Nashville and you’ve got a prescription from a doctor in Kentucky, um, pharmacists are allowed to use their good, you know, clinical judgment. Ah, good faith dispensing laws and make decisions on whether they’re gonna they think that it’s, you know, a legitimate prescription. And there certain things in place. Tennessee has even implemented some major restrictions on controlled substances, were really trying to get away from doctors, writing as many controlled substances out of like the emergency rooms. You don’t have his money drug seekers going in because they know that they’re not gonna be able to get that they’re limiting those prescriptions to three day supplies. If it is longer, they have to have a diagnosis code on the prescription. Um, so you know, Ah, lot of times pharmacists counselling on naloxone. So that’s a huge thing to is making the A P. Lloyd reversal Asian available and kind of targeting patients. Like we don’t think that you’re a drug abuser were your, um, But if you’re on a high dose opioid prescription, then they might be eligible for no oxen or a lot of times. Um, you know, it’s it’s the bison. It’s not the person that overdoses that is gonna be administering the naloxone. It is a family member, a friend, law enforcement agent that, um, they’ve got a curie those around so that they can help reverse that appear oId overdose. On day you mentioned CBD. It’s
spk_1
not necessarily connected, but I think a lot of people has Sylvia’s pain, relief and sometimes chronic pain really things that in some cases people get hooked on opioids, chronic pain. And then now we see people using CBD toe hopefully relieve some of that as well. But from a pharmacy perspective and sort of within the melt medical and health care industry, how is sandy changing things, or is it changing things?
spk_0
Yeah, well, so CBD or cannabidiol is part of the cannabis TVA plant and cannabis or marijuana? Aziz, you know, a lot of it’s, I guess, more commonly known. Um, so it’s actually been around for thousands and thousands of years. I mean, even the Chinese emperors in, like, 2000 BC. There’s been documentation that, um, you know, they even use cannabis, and even some of the early American presidents were growing him a za crop. And you can get CBD from him or from the cannabis plant. Um, and so CBD is actually the non psychoactive component. The THC is the that causes more of that euphoric feeling. Um, and so, you know, there are several states, I think, um, you know, definitely over 30 states that have actually approved medical cannabis. Um, about 19 or so have approved recreational laws. So you see that coming from the West and then making its way over to the east, Um, so a lot of different laws. And then, actually, um, the farm bill legalized CBD, so no THC, it’s gotta be less than 0.3% CBD That was legalized in December of 2018. And so now you see it in gas stations? Um, whole foods stores help stores. Pharmacies. I mean, CBD. You probably see it everywhere. It’s in face. Here it is in, um, there is apparently a rush shrine outside of Nashville that has all CBD infused foods.
spk_1
Why, no semi coffee is a big thing there, but he’s drinking their CBGB every morning
spk_0
coffee. So I will tell you that, um, that, you know, there are a lot of potential benefits from CBD like anti inflammatory, um, or, you know, other protective things. There’s a lot of claims about CBD, but there are certainly some concerns with it because it’s not regulated. It’s not a drug. Um, it’s not regulated by the FDA S O. It is kind of the wild, Wild West. You could have people that are growing it in, you know, their basement, and like bottling it up, and you’re not quite sure exactly what the percentages are? Um, and so there are some concerns. I mean, I would tell the public that, you know, there’s certainly some benefits, you know, I’ve recommended it to my dad, you know, he has a lot of like joint pain pain. He’s a cyclist, but also kind of like a bigger, like, a kind of stout guy. And so, um, yeah, is he’s gotten older, like
spk_1
you can
spk_0
You could try CBD. But it is something that you also have to worry about with, um, with drug. Uh, you know, what is your your workplace have in place about drug policies? Because you could potentially fail a drug test. It actually happened to a lady in Murphysboro, Tennessee, just outside of Nashville. That hit the front page of the Tennessee in Or, you know, one of the news journals that she was a Murphysboro. City employees. And instead of taking anxiety meds, whether it’s too expensive or a lot of people you never into trying other therapies, there aren’t a lot of negative side effects with CBD. As I mentioned, it doesn’t calls some of those euphoric feelings. But depending on how much teach sees possibly in there, you could potentially fail a drug test like she did. And she lost her job because, um, you know, her workplace had in zero tolerance for, um, for drugs. And so it’s interesting
spk_1
just trying to sleep better at night.
spk_0
So sleep is another suppressive benefit of CBD, so I don’t know that it is interesting about, you know, like, well, are we gonna have less of the opioids if we you increase medical cannabis? And there have been a few studies that have may be shown that, um, and at least it is another option. I don’t think that CBD is completely, um nonaddictive. There could still certainly be some addictive, um, you know, tendencies. Um, so, yeah, I think I think there’s there’s still a lot to be known about, um CBD, but yeah, a lot of attention on the opioid crisis and epidemic right now. So
spk_1
it’s interesting to look at it from a business perspective to you’ve seen these businesses pop up out of nowhere and to your point regulation piece. So, I mean, if I was gonna say I want to go buy a bottle of CBD oil, what would you recommend? What do I look for? Where do I find a reputable source? How can you help guide people in that direction?
spk_0
Yeah, well, I would definitely recommend, um, you know, trying to get it from, you know, doctors, office. Oh, our pharmacy. Because, you know, they hopefully have some kind of medical grade. Um, uh, one. And they’re gonna be a little bit more regulated. Your are a little bit more. Probably concerned about regulations. And so the CBD can certainly be tested for quality and the batches and things. And so I think, you know, one that has been proven to have good quality, like one of those products that would be in a pharmacy or, you know, I don’t know how much I would trust it from a gas station.
spk_1
So fair enough, do you think one day that, you know, kind of like these days we could go get Advil from the store. And Advil is the brand name. Get the Kroger brand or the store brand, however long that the generic versus brand name aspect, too. I mean,
spk_0
it’s all about marketing, you know? Are you gonna go for the high end line? And you’ve got really pretty, um, packaging and everything? Well, people are probably gonna pay more for that. Um, or, you know, there’s probably plenty of products that air like middle of the line. I think you just have to find one that, um you know, what is the quality testing look like on it. Um, And so, Yeah, there’s there is a lot of money to be made because people don’t know, Like, what is that price point? Um, and so, you know, at least you know, sometimes online you can comparison shop. Um, so, yeah, I I think that, um, you’ll you’ll start to see, maybe some brands that are, um, you know, kind of recommended. Um, and I will. So we’ll see what happens.
spk_1
Well, and I want to can protect subject as well with with general pharmaceuticals. Because every time I go the pharmacy, they say generic or brand name. And what’s the difference from from farms dispelled the Mr. I mean, do I need the brand name? Is that something I need to pay extra for?
spk_0
Well, it depends. So, you know, there are certain medicines that, um, have a very narrow therapeutic index. And that means that, um, you know, like, war friend, You probably It’s a blood thinner. Um or, um, people that take medicine for their thyroid. Leave it. The rocks in the brand name is Synthroid. Those have to be within a certain level. And so when you’re switching between different products even between different brands. Like maybe this manufacturer makes the white pill in this manufacturer makes ah, blue pill. There can be a little bit of variation within certain product. That’s that’s a very limited number of those. But, um, yeah, you’ll gil notice in your in, and patients should ask for the same thing. Like when they get stabilized, maybe on the generic leave at the rocks in. Then they should stick with that. Um, but the FDA, um, you know, moat, any new product is gonna be a branded product. They’re doing the research and developmental and those, but in about 2012 had the patent cliff. So a lot of these, like big loss block Bester drugs like Lipitor and other things went generic. Um, and so to be approved is a generic. They have Teoh prove that they’ve got same active ingredient. Same for Mako kinetic profile that is going to basically do the same thing. There may be very slight variations, but it has been approved by the FDA that it’s essentially the same. Um, so so, yeah. I mean, there’s a big difference between Price and I have been a big fan of generics about, you know, 80 or 90% of all medications dispensed or generics right now. Although specialty drugs account for most of the cost, that generics play a huge role, Um, and managing chronic illness. And, you know, about 50% of Americans have had blood pressure and said most of that can be managed with generics. Now, there is some, um some, you know, things. That air kind of happening that is is now percolating on quality. There have been a few books that have just hit, um, wine called bottle of Lies. And that is, um, I a an author did some investigative journaling looking at what the quality in some of these overseas manufacturers looks like because the FDA can go into any plant in the U. S at any time unannounced and make a visit. And so they’ve got to make sure there are up to par, and they’re following all the regulations. Well, it doesn’t quite look like that when they go visit a manufacturing plant in India or China or somewhere else. Um and so that has really just been starting Teoh become, uh, something that people are aware of. Ah, And so I think that you know it’s not anything to be alarmed at right now, but, um, I think we’ll begin to learn more is some of thes things or because I was actually able to interview the author of China Are ex within the last couple weeks. And she, um, was able to look at, um, you know, we all think of, like made in China. You’ve got toys or you have electron ICS. You don’t really think about drug like, where
spk_1
is your
spk_0
drug made? It’s not stamped on your pill or, you know, your over the counter meds. But, um, 80% of the active pharmaceutical ingredient, like what makes a drug a drug and like has the properties are coming from China. And so it’s really interesting to see, like something like the Corona virus right now, Um, when something like that hiss one country, and it’s a soul producer of the, the whole world’s active pharmaceutical ingredient that really impacts the supply chain. And so we’re already starting to see the FDA just nails. Within the last week that there’s about 150 drugs that could potentially be, um, on shortage. We’ve already seen drug shortages and things. Um, I think we’re going to see that. Probably even more with the current A virus? Um, just because factories are shut down over there, um, they I think just today we’re announcing that one unnamed manufacturer alerted then that they were going to be on drugs traditions, like, how hopeful is that if it’s an unnamed manufacturer. So I think in the next
spk_1
stock min next
spk_0
couple weeks, um, you know, pharmacists, they’re gonna have to play a huge role in. All right. Well, what are the therapeutic alternatives? So that if patients can’t get this drug, what’s something that’s comparable?
spk_1
Well, I hadn’t even thought about that. You know, the impact of where your drugs are coming from and how yeah, yeah. I mean, that makes sense. Which is why stock prices are all over the place right now, huh? These companies don’t know what to do about it. Yeah, it’s It’s crazy. Um, so one shift gears a little bit. Talk about some of things you’ve been doing where your careers headed. I know. We talked a little bit about some of the things you do. You’ve got your own podcast. You do some consulting for pharmacies. Um, and you know, women in leadership positions, things like that. So talk a little bit about where you’re headed and what you kind of see on the forefront of the direction you’re going.
spk_0
Yeah. So, you know, I’ve loved all of the clinical experience that I’ve had, um, you know, early on in my career. But, uh, over the past couple of years, as I’ve been a dispensary of hope, which is, ah, nonprofit wholesale medication distributor here in Nashville, more of those responsibilities have been more in management administration. And so I actually went back last year and got my MBA. And I thought that would be helpful because, ah, lot of times pharmacists or, you know, people in healthcare don’t have a lot of those business skills here and science classes. So, you know, the accounting and finance and things were things that I wanted Teoh, um, get a little more confidence on. And so, um, you there’s always a good time to get back to school. Um, going through, you know, different seasons and things that I’m really glad that I was able to do that, did it through my employer had a great. You know, they helped with some tuition. That’s always great. And with an actually picture program that’s online to be ableto um, it fit best with my schedule. And so I was, you know, night warrior and weekend warrior for going doing that s o That was great. And, um, yeah, I think that, um, that leadership in health care, particularly women and leadership I mentioned you know, more and more women or in pharmacy. And actually, women make the majority of the health care decisions for, you know, most American families. Um, but you’ve got so many women in the health care workforce, but not as many people in leadership, not as many women in leadership. And so I think that that’s something that I like Teoh help kind of shine that light and and encourage women leaders. Hopefully, I can compile some of the female leaders and pharmacy that I’ve had the pleasure of interviewing over the past 2.5 years, be able to share their stories and hopefully put it into a book thinking of a title, maybe, like women toe watch. And, um so we’ll see. But that’s something that I’ve really been interested in. And I think that that yeah, even other companies that are not in healthcare trying to add more women Teoh board of directors and things eso um, yeah, I think that, you know, it’s okay to be ambitious and, um, yeah, just showing some great female role models is always helpful.
spk_1
So let’s go there. Female role models, titans, people that you look up to. Who would you kind of put into that category?
spk_0
Yeah, eso So there’s certainly been, um, you know, women that have been great leaders in and pharmacy that that I’ve looked up Teoh, I think, um, saying Julia, how she is now the president for the American Pharmacists Association. She’s been great. I think season came trail Leeson domain. But, um, you know, honestly, there have been, you know, I I think there’s a lot of other women business people. I think Ivanka Trump does a great job of being professional. I I think a lot of the like TV broadcasters that have, like, kind of made their way, like Gretchen Carlson and Megan Kelly, they’ve, you know, had to face a lot of adversity. Um, you know, even my mother in law She’s a U S. Senator Marsha Blackburn. She has made her way and is a great female leader and has done so many amazing things. Teoh kind of show women in the, you know, policy and Legislature. So Ah, a lot of different. But I’ve I’ve also had a lot of great male mentors as well. Eso have have just really been able to get connected with several men who have recently retired, and they have been such great mentors to me over the past couple of years, and I’ve gotten connected with them through dispensary of hopes, have been so grateful for them and and some of the coaching from them. So
spk_1
that’s really cool. I think it’s it’s always fun to toe here peoples who have helped shape their world, their career, their philosophies because, you know, that’s really what we’re all after, we get connected people and sort of become our own version of ourselves. But see how they did it? How can adapt that into the way we’re doing it
spk_0
totally. And I mean and you know, honestly, I think it really my appearance were kind of instrumental in, um helping Teoh. You know, a man achiever. And as an only child, they pit all of their effort. And I was able to do, you know, kind of. I was pushed academically for my mom. He’s a teacher, Um, and my dad helps coach me and just about every sport. Um, so, you know, excellence has always driven home from that early age. But, um had such a supportive family and really felt like I could achieve anything that I wanted to achieve so they’d always have supported my dreams. And, um, I have done everything that they could to help make that beer reality. So
spk_1
recall I want to move into some quick hit question and answers. So I throw a few things out. Give me the first thing comes to mind best or latest book that you’ve read
spk_0
Who best? Her latest book. I’m reading atomic habits right now, actually inaudible
spk_1
that counts or listen to. That’s the best. So talk. What? What? What’s that all about?
spk_0
Uh, yeah, so I think, you know, there’s been so many. I mean, seven habits for highly effective people was kind of like life changing for me. I think I got it. Is there a resident years ago and didn’t think I had time to read that. You know, it was kind of burnout on reading and studying and all of that. Pick that back up and my role Dispensary of hope. And it has been. So I opening. And so I’m always looking for leadership books, um, and things. And so atomic have. It’s just kind of helps to reiterate some of the things that, you know, You think you know that he’s been able to kind of prove some of these good methods. And so it’s just a good kind. A refresher.
spk_1
What’s a daily routine that you can’t skip over
spk_0
so daily routine? Um, I I always try to build in some exercise, Um, at least five or six days a week. I’ve always been active, as I mentioned, um, did lots of sports growing up, So that’s really part of my identity. Um, and luckily I have a spouse that that’s also, um, a passion and eso It’s great that we were able to kind of do that together. Um, yeah. Other than that, I mean, I always have to have breakfast every day, like
spk_1
you start your
spk_0
day out right and good sleep, you know, making sure you get enough sleep. We, um, don’t have little ones running around around quite yet. That, um hopefully all still be ableto have that balance when that happens. So
spk_1
what’s a piece of advice you’ve been given or received or something you like to give to other people? Mm.
spk_0
Uh, I think it is being being willing to take opportunities. Uh, you know, I I didn’t know where I was going for that. Her PSA internship. I just went. And, uh, it’s been such a great, unique experience for me to draw from. You know, I think for the rest of my career, you know, the role of dispensary of hope. There was never if, I mean, it was a brand new role. And so it’s kind of a leap of faith. Um, like I would nonprofit. What is this? And yes, I think taking opportunities, um, has been something that has always been important. And then, you know, personal development is so important. You know, you’ve gotto kind of keep keep learning and growing and developing. Um, and they’re all thes season’s that I think that that’s a really important piece too.
spk_1
So speaking of personal development. What’s a newly formed habit or something you’re working on right now that you
spk_0
have it? Um, you know, I’m always trying, Teoh, um you know, stay on top of leadership books and blog’s and things and staying on top of current trends. Um, I would say that’s probably, uh, just tryingto stay current on some of those, um and then yeah, um I mean, I feel very fulfilled in being able Teoh, have the pie talk to your first. This podcast is away. Teoh, um always learned from others and by interviewing and telling their stories, So yeah, they would be kind of ways.
spk_1
So we already kind of hit on this. But if you could write a book, what would the title be said? You’re working on something like that, but that’s kind of something you want to do. You?
spk_0
Yeah. I would love to write a book. I think I’ve always thought about that and wasn’t quite sure what that would be. And I think women and leadership and, like, I’m really thinking about, like, women to watch. And I’ve got a little bit more of a tagline. Um, that Yeah, that’s kind of what? I’m what I’m thinking so far. So hopefully that will come to fruition.
spk_1
What are some hobbies outside of exercise that you like to get out? And do you Ah, a music lover? Do you go to concerts? Would?
spk_0
Yeah, Well, we’re in Nashville, which is, um, definitely And Music town. And there’s plenty to dio. I would say I’m kind of a foodie. I like Teoh trying new restaurants and things like that. Um, love to travel. That’s something that, you know, has been a Nash here. We just got back from a week long trip in Italy. Ah, and got Teoh do all of that. So we love to travel. We love to do triathlons in the summer. Pretty active outdoors. Um, yeah. National is a great place to be. And, um yeah, just doing things with friends. Um, there so many fun activities, So, yeah,
spk_1
I gotta ask favorite place in Italy that you went. Did y’all bounce around? A lot of
spk_0
we did we? We flew in and out of the line, and it is actually during the winner. Flights are really cheap. Missed Everyone goes in the summer. Eso you know, flights were pretty cheap hotels. We play the points game and so that was great. Ah, travel freely was the website that my husband uses. And so we actually only paid for one hotel the when her cell night the whole time we were there. But you have Venice for a few days. The Dolomites skiing, uh, and stopped and came out, which it’s better to go there during the summer. Ah, Still need to see. And then Milan and Malanda. I was very pleasantly surprised with Milan. Everyone kind of says just fashion and shopping. And they certainly have all of that that Yeah, you you don’t realize that, like not only is the joy mo that big cathedral bet the Last Supper is there, um less anything’s Yeah,
spk_1
that’s really cool. It’s on my short bucket list. I mean, that is one of the first things to get to Italy. So it’s exciting to hear. Um, you mentioned food, Your foodie. Are you a healthy eater? Do you indulge every once in a while? What’s your what’s your kind of favorite foods? And
spk_0
yeah, um, it’s hard to say, like a set like favorite food. I try Teoh try to do more of the key. I’m not a strict keto eater, but I typically try to not do that many carbs. Um, not but I’m everything in, like, kind of moderation, so I totally have a sweet tooth on dso. You know, like dark chocolate. Um, I gotta have some of that from time to time. Uh, yeah, it’s all about balance. And, um, moderation.
spk_1
That’s awesome. So, Hillary, where can people follow you? Find you here. You What are some ways to get in touch?
spk_0
Yeah. So, um, definitely active on lengthen Hillary Blackburn. Um, sometimes on Twitter. Uh, Phil Blackburn. Um, I’ve got a podcast called Talk to your Pharmacists and my instagram uh, handle is at talk to your pharmacist. So, um yeah, lots of different ways. Um and yeah, happy to answer any pharmacy related questions. So yes. Great toe be ableto chat and talk more with you about the pharmacy profession. Thank you
spk_1
so much. I really appreciate your time. This was a great conversation on and best of luck with your book. Let’s get that done. I
spk_0
got to get that done. I I have high hopes, So that is a 2020 goal. So um, now that more people know, then they’ll be looking for it. I’ll have to get it done. So yeah. Well, thanks. I enjoyed the conversation, and it was an honor to be a guest. Thank you.
spk_1
If you liked this episode of titans of industry, head to content, tightened at CEO slash podcast firm or episodes or subscribe on your favorite podcasting app. And if you know of an industry titan that’s doing amazing things. Let us know on social media or through our website so we can tell their story. Thanks for listening.
004 Titans of Industry | Donnie Ferneau
Titans of Industry | Episode 004
Expert Insight on redefining modern diners
Summary
In this episode, I talk with Donnie Ferneau, a nationally recognized award-winning chef, who has reinvented the modern diner experience.
Donnie talks about how other chefs have influenced his philosophies, how he eventually learned to check his ego at the door, and how he wound up cooking for celebrities like Bill Clinton and Eva Longoria.
Show Transcript
spk_0
dude, if we forget somebody’s ice water or beer or we slightly overcooked their chicken, it’s like we went at their house and slapped their baby in the face.
spk_1
They’re gonna write horrible things about Hey, it’s Nate Dissarro. And welcome to Titans of Industry, the podcast where I talked to industry leaders and innovators toward the top of their game and leading the pack in their fields, uncovering some of the best stories in today’s business landscape. In this episode, I talked with Donny for no nationally recognized, award winning chef who has reinvented the modern diner. Experience talks about how other chefs have influenced his philosophies, how we eventually learned to check his ego at the door and how we wound up cooking for celebrities like Bill Clinton and Eva Longoria. And now let’s get to the episode. But before we do, it’s important to know that whether you’re a small business owner or the face of a multi $1,000,000,000 industry, your organization has a great story to tell and content. Titan wants to help you tell it. Wear a digital content creation powerhouse built for the 21st century, providing all in creative strategic production, post production and distribution services for a 360 degree 24 7 world. In our world, titans are passionate, creative doers. They have the experience to take your project from start to finish, minimizing your involvement so you can focus on what matters most running your business. So if you’re ready to take your content, strategy and production to the next level, our titans are ready to help. Now here’s my conversation with Donny for No Will Scheffer. No thanks so much for taking the time. This is gonna be a great conversation. I can already tell. So I want to jump right in and just talk to me about how did you decide being a chef was what you wanted to do.
spk_0
So that is a great question. Eight. And it’s absolutely great. See you to today. That question is one of those. It’s the rial. The real answer is not as glamorous as you think. It’s seldom is right. I wanted I wanted to go to marketing. At first I want to do business. Um, but I’m 44 years old right now. And so you think of the time now. Right now, we’re using cell phones. We’ve got computers everywhere and I wanted to go to business. I want to mark the I want to do all that. But going to business school It was difficult, you know, I was paying for my own college and all that. But one thing and one thing I excelled and I could cook in any restaurant. It was just I pick it up, had a knack for it. I don’t know if it’s my bloodline, but, um, when I was cooking in restaurants and making money to go to school, I could half ass it and I was just getting, you know, different departments. I was working in different parts. The kitchen, it just came natural. But I was actually able to follow the lead of the any chef that that kind of taught me and something weird. I wish I was getting like, voices that way or acting. But if somebody shows me how to cook something and I watch you long enough, I will pick it up and I will. I will emulate what you’re showing me. And so, as a young chef or young cook or just a youngster in the kitchen, I guess the word chef is used very loosely these days, but, um, I just picked it up. It was very natural. And then, you know my lifestyle. I want to go see concerts, wanted travel, warrant, experience, life. I didn’t have any money. And so chef ing was one way I was able to do it. And, um, I was just very blessed to get to work with a lot of really bad ass chefs in the industry that taught me a lot of of what they had. And then by the time I kind of put all the things together and room in a hat and a cream created what my identity was a chef. I had a lot of different skills that that came about. But, um, I think I became a chef just because the opportunity was there. I didn’t know I wanted to be one until I was actually a chef. So, um yeah, I guess
spk_1
that is yeah. Yeah. You know, so many people, they find out like I didn’t know this is what I wanted to do, but I’m pretty good at it. And then all of a sudden, these opportunities start opening up and they go. So talk to me a little bit about where you’ve been. Where have you kind of lived in experienced And who have you had as mentors?
spk_0
So funny story. You know, we look at our college lives and we look it. You know, you’re a young man, you’re going to life. And even when I was younger, man, I was picked on all the time. I had brothers that were great in sports or what not, but cooking kind of came second nature again, you know, reiterating that. But, um, when I was cooking and what I was doing, women were a big thing. I want to go on dates. I want to meet people. And so what really drove me was going on days field a cooker. People didn’t have any money. I want to make something creative, and I was able to do it. And so but But that passion. I was able to get my hands on a kitchen position. That was his name of Chef Fleet for Scioli. And he was the executive chef on the or an express train, Europe back in the eighties. And so he and he passed away about he passed away the day before Paul per dome did braiding cancer, But it was about four years ago, but he really kind of forged my cooking abilities and his passion for life, his passion for food. It kind of lit a fire in me and I was able to go through Rockford. I went to Chicago, um, in Iowa City when I was there at University of Iowa. The with the, um, the restaurant there back in the late nineties. It was very progressive. And I’m not saying Arkansas the South is backwards by any means, but we were doing food there in the nineties that restaurants here are doing now. And that’s that was my norm. That was my every day. And then, you know, I got to cook for some very famous people. They liked it a whole bunch. And so then I got to travel the whole a lot, getting to work with different people I got to work with, like Eva Longoria, that Affleck, Matt Damon. But they were calling me by name and having me do different things for them, which for me built my ego and then, uh but I always knew because of my father and my upbringing that, you know, you’re only as good as is is what one What you tell people you are so I can get is your word. But the way I was kind of raising the kitchen is you’re only as good as your last meal. So no matter how good I was doing these things, I was always in constant doubt of myself for the next. I don’t know if I guess that fear kind of got me to where I am now, but I think it definitely kept me polished over the years. And, you know, when I traveled, I look at my career. You know, I’ve got a little diner here in Little Rock, Arkansas, and is doing wonderful. I have the best partner in the world, but what took me to get here, do all the travels, You know, you know, I’m kind of getting lost or something about all things I’ve done, but like nobody’s really asking that question. So I’m kinda like sitting back right now, and I’m looking at, like everything coming, shooting at me, and it’s been a wonderful career, but But I think you know there’s certain things in my life that have gotten me to where I am now. And one of them was, you know, um, getting to work for Felipe, for Scioli and then him calling me Chef the day I left and then fast forward working in Chicago, I got to work briefly with Charlie Trotter. That was really cool. And then coming a little rock, Arkansas, and, you know, I’m a huge Bill Clinton fan. You know, some people judge me for it, but I like Bill and then getting to do this late 60. And I don’t know if you’re familiar with that, but the slate 60 I believe, was 7 4008 And, like Bloomberg was there Ted Kennedy, Ted Turner, Warren Buffett. Bill Gates. Um, Laura Bush was there. Just a lot of heavy hitters were in the room. And somehow, with all my background, I was able to be put in front of them. They liked me. Um, and Bill came in the room and he was like, Donny, I don’t know. I don’t know who hired you to do this, but I like you do it next year. And so then we built that relationship and I did it again. Well, then, you know very quickly people knew I waas and then Eva Longoria. Eva Longoria hired me to do some of her Eva’s heroes thing, and she introduced me as her celebrity chef. And after that I just got a got to do some really cool stuff. It’s been a great career,
spk_1
Amazing. Well, And you’re only 44 by the way. So you know, 20 ish years into it, and, uh, I would imagine in some regards, you feel like you’ve accomplished quite a few things you’ve got, you know, cat, head diner, where we’re sitting here today. But I would imagine in the brain there’s a long way to go. There’s a lot you still want to do.
spk_0
There is a lot I want to do. Um, right now I’m very content with my career. I’ve got a great restaurants, I have a great staff and, you know, you know one thing to think about two and you know, um, in anybody’s career, no matter what it is, we think of time capsules on people that we’ve worked with, and I worked in some very fine dining restaurants. I worked with some very celebrated chefs, and this isn’t just me kissing ass right now, but I can honestly say the full staff top to bottom that I have right now and you know, it’s It’s February mid February 2020. Is that the best stuff I’ve ever worked with in any restaurant in any part of the industry? I bet. And so right now it’s really easy for me. But I look at it, you know, I’m a classically trained chef. I’m making barbecue scrambled eggs in the morning and frying up some chicken. And
spk_1
we are busy Well, and I can attest every single time I’ve come and eat into restaurant. I never once had a protein that I thought was anything less than amazing the sides that you prepare our If I could just take gallons of them home, I wouldn’t eat anything else. And this is not me kiss and asked, This is me. I mean, I love food as much as anybody. And I can’t tell you how many people have brought here from out of town and everywhere else. And we come in the the rustic simplicity of this place. Everybody loves it. They fall in love with a concept because you can’t get that good of food and it’s somewhat cafeteria style. Walk through the line and have it served up.
spk_0
That was the hard part, you know? And I’m glad you said that because, you know, looking at my career and that’s kind of what we’re here to talk about today. I don’t think I could have done This is a young chef. I think my ego is in the way. I mean, you look at any industry and our number one goal in any industry. We forget about how important it is to make money. We first focused on how could be the best at my craft. How can I win the most awards? How can I have the most athletes? How can I let other people see me as a powerful person? Because I’m looking up to so many and and and so this this for me right now, You know, I feel like I’ve achieved a lot of those things. Um, I start. I struggled so hard to get the white Chef jacket on and to win all the awards, and I sound kind of shitty when I say it, but I’ve already I’ve done that now and so now I I guess I’m here to relax and not to work less, but give the people what they want. You know, as a chef, we have so much to prove or an artist. And we have an ego, and it’s kind of weird how my priorities have changed, you know, first, it was like my ego that had to be patted with with my style of food and thank God everybody liked what I told them to eat. And now times have changes. 2020. And the only reason that we’re doing great things here, and I feel that we’re doing very successful lunch services and breakfast is we’re listening to customers and they’re telling us what they want. And so, rather than being a typical Scheffer, you look them like you’re stupid. This is what you should be eating, not this. I’m listening to them and taking it in, and I’m trying it. And if it doesn’t work, I try it again until they give me a thumbs up. I mean, it’s all about if you own a business, because with chef ing it’s different things. You could be a chef and have somebody else take all the risk and they pay you and they’re paying for your name, your reputation and your food. You know, food costs, runs little high numbers. They just gonna figure it out. But when you have skin in the game and you’re owning it and you have a partner that’s showing you the numbers and teaching you how the business works, you have to take everything into factor. And so, you know, saying only 44. I like the way you put that, because I feel like I do have a lot more to offer. But at this stage of my career, like I’ve I’ve done it, I’ve won it. I’m listening at this point, and, you know, even though it’s not fine dining or not at a white tablecloth restaurant, I think I’m putting out the best food in my career right now because I have the best staff.
spk_1
Well, I wish I knew you 15 years ago to taste some of these things. That helps kind of our delegate who you are. But at the same time, I mean, you know, I don’t come here near enough and thats on me, but it’s same time Every time I come it za true treat on I love it on, but I get the opportunity to travel quite a bit. And so I’m eating out all the time and I always try and find great places in the city’s I’m in. And to be able to come back home to Little Rock and have such a great restaurant right here is such an amazing thing because, I mean, we’ve talked a little bit about some of the other great restaurants in town. But you either go to him and you spend a fortune or you can’t go back often enough because you find the two things on the menu. There are good, but you’re constantly, you know, you’ve got some staples, the creamy cheese grits by
spk_0
the it’s unbelievable. But even if you even talk about that like then the chef and me is like this is Ross and Family Farms, their local. And they are local, you know, did heh firs right down the road. You can hit. You can hit a baseball and hit the top of the roof over there from my patio. I mean, we can see the whole city, you know, the downtown escaped, but Heffer shipping me farmers given me contacts constantly. And even though my job is to cook the food, our job really is just not f it up more getting the best products in here. And as we’re sitting right here, do that poor there you can see like the bourbon barrels. And I did fermentation on some hot sauce. Their aging and rock town bourbon barrels. But the peppers air from Heffer.
spk_1
Okay, you got trying. Wait,
spk_0
What is that? We got like, Heffer Rock town burb in a rock town and cat heads altogether, but and you talk about the restaurant scenes. You know, you think about being a fine dining chef too. And like you said, watching little rock grow and change, you know, we’ve got we’ve got a new mayor that’s kicking, But you know, we’ve got a lot of really cool change in the city. But you watch the news in the climate that we have right here and at the end of the day, I’m still in artists. We still need something to kind of fill our hearts, and we can watch the news every night and talk about the divide that we have in any city, the just the hate that’s going on. If you look up in this room at 11 30 you can see every walk of life, every social demographic, every financial demographic and even racial, having a meal together, laughing and enjoying it. And you never know any of that shit was going on outside the doors of this restaurant and and when I was doing fine dining, I only cook for the 1%. I heard a lot of bullshit.
spk_1
I
spk_0
mean, I looked at it at the city through a different scope. Sure, and
spk_1
so anyhow, I love that perspective, though. No, because in fact, very soon we should be having mayor on the podcast as well. So it’ll be a lot of fun. Toe have that conversation as well, but his platform is Let’s unify the city. What better way to do that than around a table
spk_0
table foods always involved and shoot. I mean, there’s a famous painting, the last meal, so you know, it’s even in the Bible. We all eat. Come on, man. And food can change a lot of things, and it can make people happy. And if you have that platform people toe to do it.
spk_1
Yeah, I love that. A better place. So, So much I want to cover. Let’s start with the the artist in you much like my industry, right? I’m a storyteller, visual storyteller at that. I love to sit and talk to people and understand where they come from, what they do. But then I have a duty to put out what the consumer wants. What, the viewer or the listener once? Because I don’t I mean, yeah, I wanna put out what I want, but it’s the same time. If if the listener doesn’t want it, then what are we doing? Right. And there’s a lot of salutary and what you do like you were just saying, If you’re listening right now, you’re hearing what the market says and the market always wins. They’re always gonna tell you what works and what doesn’t. Whether it’s your job to listen and so talk a little bit more about that idea of the creativity and you the artist in you, but also how that couples with I’ve got a business to run and I’ve got to put out food that people are gonna like on a consistent basis on a scalable basis and kind of tell a story within that food. That’s
spk_0
a that’s a That’s a good question and, you know, it does not think about and, you know, when you when you listen that okay, the chef aspect. One thing I’ve always thought about food and anybody’s ever worked for with me. I have this persona that when you meet me, before you speak with me, you think I’m gonna be like a dick or, I don’t know, just cut you down too quickly. I’m your typical chef, but I listen a lot more than people think, and I watch. And when it comes to the food, we just want people to feel like warm inside. One thing that’s important to me, his family, and we’ve got a lot of my favorite people in my whole world that are on this Earth anymore. Um, and we want people to have the same experience is thinking about food. The grandmother cooked their mom cooked ticket back to a summer where the whole family was there, smells all of it, and so okay, that’s our duty to give people that experience and then me is the leader of the chef. I have to somehow make my team do. This is what we’re doing. Guys, get them on the same boat. We’re gonna create this. We’re gonna make it this way. But I found doing, you know, doing business and being the chefs out of it and telling that story to food and making it kind of a family environment where you get all this demographics. What is hard for chefs, a typically do is take other people’s ideas and opinions and styles and working with them. And this is exactly I’ve done with this. And so as an artist, I listen to every single one of my cooks everything one of my chefs regard. So how insignificant I think, their culinary training, their lifestyle, the way they they don’t make their better. They do make their bed. All of those things I listen what they have to say. I left them, bring me someone, a story about food, and then we figure out ways to cook it toe where they’re able to cook it like I can. But then it’s also like, Man, this shit tastes just like my grandma used to make back on Sundays. And so, you know, hopefully I’m touching base What you just asked. But like as a chef, I mean, I’m a different chef now. I mean, I’ve got a family restaurant, and we want people to feel like family when they’re in here. But that being said, you and I both know that we work all the time and Buster asked, hustling the people, There’s two groups. You spend time with your actual family family that you sleep, you know, in the same house with every night and then your work family. And I feel blessed because both families not only do they all get along, but I have great families on both side of the fence, and so it’s been easier for me. So listen in to take time, and it’s probably funny, you know, when they listen, this will probably get it, but sometimes I talk to him. I sit and listen extra long on. I’m telling about the food used to make. I got a new chef back there. Now, Mike, he’s making his mom’s chicken and dumplings and everybody’s loving a man. And not only that, the cleaner plates, because it was his mom’s but they’re from the South. And so when he’s talking about, I’m listening and he doesn’t realize that I’m taking every mental melt that I can because I’m learning from them and I kind of feel like we’re all learning from each other. And that’s the food I’m putting out right now. Me and some very vulnerable, you know, They could totally f me with some of the stuff, but now are telling me. But you know, I’m a sponge right now. I’m listening. I’m putting it out So hopefully stay on topic with that. But that
spk_1
was great. I love, but I think perspective is key and understanding multiple perspectives and then sort of as the leader, as the artist, as the chef and the business owner taking all those perspectives and saying, OK, here’s the direction we’re gonna go
spk_0
Absolutely. And, you know, like leading any business of what you do. If your team doesn’t feel like they’re part of the movement and part of the change in part of the progression, you know, you’re one year a bad leader, and two, you’re not gonna have those people that will go to any battle with you. And so I kind of feel like I’m good at it. Maybe, you know, they might say different, But if you know you come in here on any given day of the restaurant were sleeper Super Slam packed lines out the door on sweeping. I’m bussing tables. I’m cooking with the team. I’m answering phones. I try to pick up any little bit, Um, where can help somebody else succeed? But you know, this whole side of the restaurant, it’s It’s a lot more than it’s a different atmosphere causes a chef. I could just feel like, you know, f you. This is how we’re doing it before.
spk_1
I don’t think I’ve ever been here and not seen you out on the floor. I don’t know that I’ve ever seen you behind the line when I’m here, and I applaud that because I think, you know, again it’s a It’s about so much more than just the the ego side. The I’m bigger than everybody else. I’m putting out this great food and standing back and watching you eat it.
spk_0
There was a guy that was in here the verdicts. I still get some of my I tell people I used to be fancy back in the day, but there was a guy three top in here, and so funny is maybe he’ll hear this and realize that it was because he didn’t hit very well. But he looked at me, goes, Wow, you’re like one of most celebrated chefs and sitting here, your sweeping the floor. And my comment to him was, wouldn’t you? And he looked at me and go man like custom. Right now, I’m one of the owners and like this needs to get done. What? I my point tell somebody to do it. And he just looked at me and then, you know, um, one of the bite my servers goes Chef, I don’t know who that was you were talking to, boy. They leave horrible tips around. You know, it was just like I knew that guy from when I was fancy and come in my restaurant, and it’s just you know it, I guess you know, that might have been pointless, but
spk_1
what the leadership aspect of that is absolutely on on the idea that, you know, you’ve got to lead by example to an extent you gotta show everybody that works for you and with you. Your work, family. I’m willing to do whatever it takes.
spk_0
Yeah, but I wonder why he didn’t tip very much sleep sweeping the s and floors are you know, he didn’t think I was back there, but, um, I know it was just an awkward exchange of conversation on a Sunday were packed. It’s like, obviously you’ve never owned a business.
spk_1
So I want to see here’s a little bit and talk about just kind of the business side as a whole. Um, your partner in the restaurant, You’re not just a employee or a celebrated, you know, Chef, that works for the restaurant, right? You are equally as responsible as anybody else for the outcome of the profitability. The, you know, making sure that you can pay the people that work for you, um, and creating an establishment that the the audience wants to come to that the consumers want to come to. So putting your business add on for men. It was his business. Been easy for you. Has that always been a struggle? How did you kind of become sort of on entrepreneur along with a chef?
spk_0
You know, that’s a that’s a very good question Because, you know, my first strike at the iron I became very I was very blessed of the gates, um, and great teachers to get there. But my first restaurant, you know I named for No, it was my last name. Ah, funny story. I got in some trouble. I was very I was good athlete growing up. Got a little bit of trouble. Cops. Nothing big, but my grandma for no, I thought I ruin the whole family name. This is up in Iowa, and then my business partner asked me what we should call the restaurant. I said for no, it sounds a good name. It rolls off the tongue secretly. I was doing it. So should be proud of me again. She died two weeks before you hope, but she’s my grandmother. So she loved me. But with that restaurant, you know, we just took We took risk. I kind of looked at avoid, you know, like other entrepreneurs and business people. Do whatever you create something you try to fill a void that’s not there and not only you try to do it, but you do it strong. And so you know, this was little Rock, Arkansas 2000 circa 3 4000 for and my partner and I. We talked about it and there was no place to have a nice meal, have a couple of drinks. This is music and have something, something progressive that wasn’t like dinner rolls on the table and so outdated, and we got really lucky with it. And even when we weren’t profitable, we’re still making money. And so what I mean by that is when we’re spending money poorly. Our costs were higher food costs, labor costs, all those things we’re trying to work out. There was still sales coming into the door that we could float the business, but my business partners, very savvy and very smart man. He was able to teach me the, you know, the winds and the losses of business. And, you know, when him and I split ways the first time in 2011 because we sold the business successfully, I took the football and ran with it, and I did a lot of great successful things. But then I was stupid and opened up a business with passion because I was passionate about something. I opened up a healthy restaurant in Arkansas, which nothing to say about about that. But, um, I was very passionate about it, and my passion blinded me by the realities of business numbers, rent formulas, how that works. And so in a really, you know, school of hard knocks way I learned my lesson. So I had a big win with the first business, a strong loss of the second. And I think, you know, I know that him and I circled back together because, you know, one we kind of had both passion. But more business sense going into this and this one right now, you know, this one’s really winning because we’ve taken all the wins, the losses and put together. But, you know, you can read 1000 books on business and and still not know what the hell you’re doing. Once you get out in the open ocean, you’re swimming on your own. Um, but you really have to work it and do it to really learn, because every application to what you know is different. In every region, the country, every region of business, it’s all different. It’s not a one size fits all, and so, um You know, I wish I could say I was uber successful my entire life, and I’ve lost nothing to get here. But, um, that’s the exact opposite
spk_1
when it’s it’s really probably the losses that teach you way more than the way Oh, my
spk_0
God, man. You know, the losses will teach you to be very frugal with your money, you know, And what I can say. There was no matter how poor business has gotten, I’ve always paid my employees on time.
spk_1
That’s great. Okay, trust me, that is a huge Shia thing to do. And, you know, like a reference businesses a lot of times about how do we float to the next month how we figure this out? How do we get from point A to point C without totally skipping over Point B? Um, but each time you have to do that, you learn a little something so that the next time it’s a little easier the next time it’s a little easier. And you hope that that not only do you become a successful business owner, Andi have the satisfaction that comes with that, but that that trickles down to your staff and that they learn It’s OK to try things and maybe failed, but that they learned from that.
spk_0
Absolutely. And, you know, that was a great statement because I had a business partner here before our just in general. I’ll just say in general, and the one thing that person took is a huge, disrespectful thing that I said to this person was, What did you learn from that? And that person looked at me like, How dare you say that? And I was like, Oh, my God, Wait. Every time I get my ass kick, I take a step back and say, What did you learn from that? Because you could just lick your wounds and get back up. But if you didn’t learn what just ran you over and how to avoid it, it’s gonna happen again. It’s gonna happen again. It’s gonna happen again. And just because the way I talk myself was like, OK, Dani, dipshit, what did you learn from this? What can you different? And, um, yeah, the wins and losses with business. I mean, if you can’t learn from it, but going back to my age, you know, is a younger chef. When I was celebrated in all the magazines. National did all that. Give your ego up front. Now my goes in my back pocket and unable to listen to those and those losses. You know, I’m not making excuses for it. It’s the reality. You know, the black and white. When you look at your financials, that’s not opinion. That’s factual. And when your customers are telling you what they want, that’s an opinion here that’s factual. And if you somehow get those two together, you should have a way. And I think that it goes across the board with any business. Really
spk_1
love that. All right. Talking about teamwork, We couldn’t teamwork a little bit earlier, but your team is very important to you. Oh, absolutely. Here. How do you go about building that team?
spk_0
Well, I guess if you look at it in a nutshell, over higher and cut the fat once. It’s, uh, once it’s running, but we really gave everybody a chance. And again, even though I sound pleasant, I’m hard to work for my expectations of myself and my staff. They’re non realistic and getting there. I mean, we have fired a lot of people. We gave them chances they kind of fired themselves. I guess you could say, um but the ones that stuck with me, I guess the resultant ones that the hardcore ones that that want the same thing that I want I mean, you get to meet less than autumn today. And what’s crazy is when I have talked with them, they want this business to be successful as if they were owners in its toe. Have that kind of feeling, man, that’s a huge. It’s a huge honor. It gives me very emotional think about But like then you have other employees that come in that just want a pay check. And you got to realize, like in the culinary industry, we’re a band of pirates, a bunch of misfits, and you know, you don’t get rich doing it, and a lot of people, you know, have extra correct. We’re lifestyles. And, you know, I think we’ve really weeded through that. We’ve built a family here to where all of them, a lot of them hang out outside of here without me being part of it. But, um, we somehow make them all feel like family, and they’re my family. And so, um, building it Good team in reliability. And I mean, I guess it speaks with the owner and the person in charge. I mean, if you treat him like shit, they’re going to treat you like shit.
spk_1
You know what? That’s a couple of great things out of that. I think one of the big things that that stands out is you gotta earn the respect but said to two interesting phrases that that I think one of my favorite authors talks about a lot One is resiliency and finding people that are willing to kind of hit but up against things and go through the difficult things on the other is extreme ownership. Jocko willing. I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of him. Former neighbors, Navy SEAL. He was Navy SEAL training officer and one of the guys that you wouldn’t want to meet in a dark alley and this off. But, um, he talks about extreme ownership a lot and finding the people who were willing to take ownership over something and not give it up whether they own the business or not, they’re gonna own their part of the business. Absolutely. The customer relationship. They’re gonna own the food preparation there, you know, whatever it is, and they and you, as a leader as an owner, have to give them that responsibility and then walk away. So this is yours. You have extreme owners. Absolutely. I’m gonna walk away, and if it ever gets screwed up, it’s on you because I gave you that ownership. But the key for you as a leader is giving up that ownership.
spk_0
That’s very difficult to do, too. And it’s, um, this one, this restaurant we’ve kind of done that we give a lot of credit. I never give credit where it’s not due, but I let them take the credit and, you know, is a food writer. Maybe I’m not fun to write about it. I give credit to everybody around me, you know, Um and I’m not gonna hog it, But But when it comes to F ups or like, the food sucks, it’s my fault. If it’s a win, we all did it. If it sucks, it’s my fault. So, um, because that’s what the customer things anyways, you. But if you’re man enough or or a woman enough owner enough to own that type of criticism, you’re gonna have a team that worked their ass off for you. But, man, you know, let me tell you, if you think you’re gonna own a business is gonna be easy. Oh, yeah, We’re gonna knock this out. It might be after 10 or so years. But, man, when you’re trying to form a business and build, you have to treat your your staff with the greatest respect and you can’t talk down toe. I mean, um, you know, there’s certain things I want to say now, but politically, it’s incorrect. But like some of the demographics I’ve had working for me here, I’m learning about barriers and what you can and can’t say and what strikes the court of some people want with others. And so you put that all in one basket and you build a language for everybody. That’s motivational. You’re not stepping on anybody’s toes, but the end of the day. You just want your job. Don’t you want everybody their job? Right? And And here, man, I’ll tell you, because my girls, my guys, they don’t hold back. If I say the wrong thing and ship six months into this business, I don’t know what the hell was going on, but now we’re a year and 1/2 in, and it’s finally figured itself out. But But I learned as much from them as they have for me by them teaching me what I can and can’t say, because did you gotta realize my background is like French brigade style screaming and cook? You know, I’ve never been that way. So I feel like people that yell in the kitchen or at work. They’re just angry people, and they’re probably mad because they suck. But, um, I try not to get angry with my staff, but like that was my background, you know, one chef pointing screaming, telling you what to do. And you just shut shut your mouth and and do your job. So then think about that and think about the demographic of today’s society. Think about the kids come out of college right now. We talked to him that way, not
spk_1
at all.
spk_0
They know what HR is CEO, and they know how to use it real well.
spk_1
That’s right. Well, I think we’ve all seen the movies and probably experienced in some regards and restaurants ourselves. The stereotype that goes with a lot of the kitchen, you know?
spk_0
Oh, shit, man. You know, even in the city, they’ll have people that there are people still to stay, that think I’m very hard to work with. And the way I tell you know, my staff is like, OK, there’s two sides of me. There’s a very sweet giving man that will do anything for you and work very hard. And there’s another one that will cut you down, make you be quiet, work very hard and you won’t be good enough. I don’t decide that you do. And people that want to talk about about me and say I’m you know, I’m hard to work for. They probably lied. They probably didn’t do what they said they were going to or didn’t follow through. If you look me in the eye, tell me you’re gonna do it. That’s all I asked for. And when you f up, if you say you learn something went again. If you make a mistake and own it, I will hug you. You will not be like discipline. If you make a mistake, lie about it, tack it on somebody else. You’re gonna hate me. I will ride you until you quit. You know what? We fire you. But it’s, um Anyways,
spk_1
I love that I get worried about so good. Well, let’s so let’s talk a little bit about the chef network. Other chefs around you in this market. Or if you go places and running a chef’s, there’s There’s from my perspective, almost two schools of that. You’ve got the friendly side of chefs all working together for common, good, of taking care of their their population, putting out good food. But then you have a very competitive side of chefs. I want to be the best. I want to have the best restaurant I wanna have the best food in the best restaurant. The other guy across town isn’t right up the part. You know what, talking about that dynamic. And how does that fit into the whole chef and culinary industry of both the friendliness and the competitiveness? And is that a personality thing? Is that an industry thing?
spk_0
It’s kind of crazy, you know. And I have to skid across this very politically. Correct because, um, again going back to it. Some people don’t think I’m the nicest or or whatever, but I see Little rock is different, man. Like, um, you build a nice core group of people, but but even my business partner, like apparently it’s in all fields of business, like you get a really good group of people air straight to your face and nice to you. But there’s a toxic kind of underbelly of every industry in the city that no matter how successful you are, somebody wants to take you down. Um, but I think right now, with chefs that are especially getting celebrated, one thing I want to talk about, I think it’s really cool in the shop industry, you know, getting more females out there in that younger generation that’s a little bit wilder and more willing to take risks. But getting rid of the stereotypical chef kind of iconic. Ah, position right there. You know, the core group that we have right now in this industry in Little Rock. If you look at who the stars are right now, I think they’ve gotten there for a reason. You know, when they have celebrated, you know, like, look at some of the, um, the restaurants you’re talking about right now. You’ve got Scott reigns at Table 28. He’s a very unconventional chef, but but he’s a freaking rock star, you know. You know, the Capital Bar and Grill just switched gears and they’re bringing a new chef in which I think is super cool. But, like, even look at the food truck culture like Amanda IV’s out there killing it right now. And she’s, you know, she’s kind of worked under every a lot of chefs, and now she’s her own entity. And she’s one of the female chefs I’m talking about, which I think she’s gonna whole another female chefs up, out, you know, into the limelight, just with her leadership, because you know, she’s doing things that are unconventional, but they’re amazing, you know, And she’s doing the food truck dream. And even though she probably wants more, I think she’s smart. Could be because she could shut the doors and driveway any point. Um, but you know, as far as all of us working as a team, you know what we’re getting there were slowly getting there. Um, I think I think who’s really being this rock stars in this industry and getting us all to work together are the farmers a lot of the chefs are really liking to use some of the local farmers and the local farmers air non biased. They just want to use the best chefs. And so if certain chefs have a beef with each other, they’re starting to kind of lower their, you know, dropping a guard a little bit working together. And you know this right now and I’ll bring it up. There’s a conversation I had with my friend Rob Ross, and you know, he knows a few of my secrets cause I have a couple chefs out there that for some reason don’t like me. But I just I was asked what I do, and he’s like me and I I don’t know, But why don’t we do this? And he said Something really cool out here in this parking lot. Um, I’m doing something with March of Dimes right now. March of Dimes came out of retirement five years ago, was the last event, and they brought me on to her lead chef and he said something that stuck with me, cause me and are you guys just need to get together and do a big dinner where there’s no politics. Nobody’s butts hurt. Nothin’s You just cook together. I love it. And so March of Dimes has me doing event on September 24th year in Little Rock, and the group of chefs I’m building now was direct motivation. From what Rob Ross said, I want no politics. I want all of us to get together, cook together and have fun about it because, you know, in the medical field marketing field, I’m sure in your industry there’s always politics in there. And when you’re in public and you see these people, you all shake hands and take photos together. But behind closed doors, everybody’s trying to talk shit about each other, and it becomes toxic and being a celebrity chef, traveling and doing some cool stuff. And apparently these that term loosely because some of the stuff I’ve been involved with I mean, it blows my mind. But one thing I found like, you know, he saw Auburn was here today, and I was meeting with them, Um, when I was here working with all these chefs. They’re all James Beard award winners or nominees. Every one of them had each other’s backs when the event was over, the all drink whiskey together, and we had fun. But there wasn’t that underground, just bitchiness. And so I think again, I think every industry has it. And I have to be very careful what I say because there’s a lot of it here, and I think a lot of its stem from jealousy. But right now, my mission in 2020 with this new March of Dimes thing, you know, it’s great, you know, a great cause, but I want to get a bunch of chefs together and cook and have fun and try to rebuild the structure of what it means to be a chef in the city. Because, um, I think at times it becomes toxic because you look at food writers, every single one of us. Think about your job. Think about every single time you do. You go to work and did your work for the day. Some asshole can write a review about you and what they think, and what’s so funny is most of people leaving negative reviews for I have jobs where there who knows? They’re probably assholes to people in the daily, but nobody’s giving a shit, reviewing what they do and I’m not saying their jobs don’t matter. But, you know, with you, look at the social age. I mean, shoot kids right now they’re 12 years old. Staring at phones all day were chefs. When when I became a chef, you got written about I like journalists and real food writers. And now you can be like, I’m gonna be a food writer. I eat food every day, so I’m gonna start a block, and then you have this capability to to critique chefs at their craft. But then, you know, I would be lying to say if it didn’t get into her head. And that’s kind of what causes the toxic side. So, you know, short story long, Um, I think you know us moving positive. I think we’re all kind of over the food block thing, but I think the constant being judged by the community, it makes us toxic because, dude, if we forget somebody’s ice, water or beer or we slightly overcooked their chicken, it’s like we went at their house and slapped their baby in the face. They’re gonna write horrible things about so, you know, think about that daily. So anybody listening here and thinking why chefs have egos is you guys can restaurants get in your car because you’re fighting with your wife and like the whole experience horrible. And you’re gonna leave, you know, horrible review on something that somebody sport all their passion to. And if you get enough batter views in a row, it’s gonna economically effect how you live. You know, so
spk_1
more of the story. Just leave chefs alone, let them do their thing. Let’s do our
spk_0
job and chill. But like, you know, I think a lot of that builds a toxic level because he was a young chef coming up. Everybody had fun. Now all this Facebook instagram and yelp Um, we’re each other’s throats. I guess we don’t even know it.
spk_1
Yeah, that’s it’s unfortunate because I want to shift gears back the other way now, and something you brought up March of dimes, you know, mentioned Heffer International, and we’ve you know, I think I’ve interviewed you over there for a project, and, um, you give back in a lot of ways. I’ve seen you have multiple events. You’re always out in the community, apart of fundraisers and nonprofits and helping out where you can to support these efforts, and I’ve seen a lot of chefs do that. There’s a very generous heart. It seems like that comes with a lot of chefs. Why do you do things like that? Why? Why is that important? Why is that something you get back to the community?
spk_0
For one thing, I think about, you know, regards of all of the chefs. You know, you’re even at arms and they’re married each other and all that’s not working. The one common thing that we have is feeding people and making our community better. And so for me, making my community better is a huge thing because, you know, think about when we’re kids. Man eating dinner with Mom and Dad For those of us that were four chef tohave No, a Stainer, Typical family life for a brief moment. But no matter what I have going on the world, I was safe at mom’s table. And so whenever you can feed people and give them a great meal, even politically, people drop their guards and they become friends at that point and all of us chefs, no matter what side of city were in, we want to make our community better. We want to look it. How we can one inspire people to do good. You know, one thing you don’t you know you don’t want to do is piss off your neighborhood you’re in. How can you become more rooted and create change to make everything you know evolve into a positive and like this restaurant alone right here? You know, when I moved here, the little rocket No. One, I’m not saying it’s backwards, but I couldn’t believe the lack of, um, recycling that wasn’t going on, you know? And so that is a group of chefs trying to get that together. And, you know, like like, there’s a place called Potluck. And now what we’re doing is you know, you come to cat heads or cafeteria style. It’s not a buffet because you don’t get to touch food. We do. But we donate all of our food weekly to potluck. They come and pick it up. I mean, did we’re sitting here? I was meet with people from Auburn you were setting up on. My guy from potluck came in, go in the kitchen of my chef, Kaplan set him up. And so It’s those things that we’re not doing. But we know in our hearts, you know, we’re feeding somebody down the street that might not even know where it came from. But it might have given them a meal to help somebody else out or to get off their ass and, you know, get their life together. You know, um, but fundraising is It is a big way, you know? There’s two. There’s two sides of that coin, you know. And if you look at the smart ways a business owner, you can spend all your money with TV and print ads and all that stuff, and that’s $1000. Or you can be directly in front of the clients
spk_1
that you want to
spk_0
be in front of spending that same amount of money, letting them know who you are but giving back and making a change free community. And I mean, for me, that’s it’s a no brainer, but it’s hard for me to say no, especially because really good. So I do way too much shit.
spk_1
But I love it, and I love seeing you out there. You always have a smile on your face. Um, I feel like the ego for everybody is gone in those environments, there’s no such thing as, you know, the food writers. What food writers gonna have something negative to say if you’re out, you know, helping Heffer raise money for the work that they do internationally. Oh, absolutely. Okay, so you’ve been a part of several concepts you mentioned when you moved to little Rock That where you had been. You guys were doing things that little rocks just now, kind of doing our recently kind of picked up. So the innovation in the culinary industry and as a chef, as a young chef, you’re always free to try new things. And you kind of want to prove yourself and see what’s on the horizon that you can bring in. But how do you continue to innovate and change? And, you know, as the world changes, how do you change with it? But be true to yourself, that whole mentality,
spk_0
you know? And that was a tough one. Because you can you can do all these different things and try to be the greatest chef that you can like, You know, I’m gonna I’m gonna cook the beef. This we’re gonna make this crazy sauce, blah, blah. But until you figure out your audience and one thing with Little Rock Little Rock and I thank you for this you’re very predictable with your times. If it’s raining outside, you’re probably not gonna come. There’s a silent dinner bell that rings every night at seven o’clock in Little Rock and everybody eats at that time. The all seat from 11. 30 to 1 o’clock and after one o’clock you got a debt, a restaurant. And so how do you capitalize on those things? Also, trying new things get to obscure on a Tuesday and then you’re upset because nobody tried it. It’s nothing Tuesday, man. You know, you have to get excited about it. And when you do these innovations, you have to try it. Try it again, try it again and polish it. And then, if you’re giving it to your customer and this this, I feel like this goes across the board. It’s any business. If you’re not excited about it, they’re not gonna be excited about it. And you can, as long as you can sell that shit straight and you’re really selling it to them with your passion behind it. They’re going to try it with an open mind. But, you know, perfect example. You look at this jumping through hoops and trying to be innovative. It wasn’t innovative, but it was innovative. A little rock was also book. Oh, you’ve heard of us? Abou co braised lamb shank, all of it. And so I had a food writer and it it was a female food writer and she was known. And I know that I am, But I might go say it. Those of you who’ve read the Dem Gazette before food bloggers And when you could remember when he became a chef, he became a chef at the you know, the mercy of a legitimate food writer with with the newspaper magazine and print. This one was no to be very rough. And she came in and or did the awesome book. Oh, I did a broth. Why tour Thai basil over Thai basil like similar basil? Not a sweet has more. If I can answer, See you like a licorice kind of finish beta broth with some roasted potatoes. Very. A lot of times it’s with mashed potatoes or grits, and I started with a whole lot of grilled bread and some grilled vegetables. But the best part of us Abou go to me is the bone marrow. And so when you get a good, awesome book oh, you have the shank in the middle, you have the bone on and again, it’s a very classic dish, but because of the region, I mean, it was innovative because nobody else was either doing it or they were doing it for such a small market. A lot of people didn’t know. And so thank goodness I’ve always touched the tables, going back to Felipe. I talked to each one of my tables that I can if I have time, because if there’s gonna be a bad review, I can intercept it. But I can also listen to what they liked, what they didn’t like about the experience. And then from that conversation, I could do whatever the hell I want. I can forget about it. I can I can change it or get mad, whatever. But she didn’t like all the fat, the bone marrow that was in the bone. It was big, and I stopped and I showed her and it wasn’t hurt. Lack of journalism or anything there. It was just she was cooking her region where she was writing about the food of her region. I guess she used to say so when Little Rock wasn’t doing. Also because it’s like 2002 should know what to do with bone marrow. So I stopped her and I showed how to take the demitasse spoon and spread the marrow on top of the grilled bread and to see the light in her eyes and her face change like Oh my God, this is the best thing I’ve ever had. I didn’t know I went from a complete shit review toe like an amazing review because I stopped to show where those things and so circling back on, being innovative. You know, sometimes you see to educate your audience on what the hell they’re having. But, you know, innovation is a great thing, and it’s a bad thing. You just have to make sure what you’re innovative with. You’re really listening to who you’re cooking for or you’re doing business with, to give them what they want. But you’re predicting what they want, but they don’t know they wanted. Yet present makes sense absolutely, and so being innovative, it’s almost like you have to look into the future. Um, and, you know, looking at our restaurant here, we opened up with a big doughnut shop, don’t have some stuffs, and they were great, but nobody bought him. It was like looking at animals at a zoo. They point in it. That’s cool. But they went, got the fried chicken, the brisket. We only have doughnuts on the weekends. Now we rolled with the punches. We have cinnamon rolls. People love cinnamon rolls. They’ve asked for cinnamon rolls. Now we have them. But we try to be innovative with the doughnuts, you know? And then you have hurts donuts that came in the city loves them and all that, but for some reason, you don’t want Guy had donuts. And so I hope I answered
spk_1
your question that I love that I love every element of that. Because innovation you’re exactly right. It has to come with an understanding and education. You know, you look at some of the greats, the iPhone, right? So many people early on were scared of the iPhone because they didn’t know what to do with it. And then all the sudden there becomes more of a common understanding. But people still, I see him pick up the iPhone and they’re afraid of the newest update, right? It’s because, Well, what change? What do I not know now that I thought I knew? And I love how that falls into food because you can be innovative with Chef, You haven’t understanding and ability to put something out to people, but they may not know to do with it. So they’re scared of it. Or they think it’s worse than the previous version or whatever the case may be. And I think that goes across any industry that with innovation, has to come Education and understanding. And so one things I’ve been preaching a lot lately is the idea of I want to be understanding, not understood. Like I don’t want you to understand my point of view. I want to understand yours. If I understand your point of view, then I can educate you on things you might not understand about what I’m trying to tell you. But if I just push my idea across, then you don’t have any idea where I’m coming from. So I need to understand you first and then be able to kind of educate you Based on that
spk_0
perspective gives you better understand how toe towards them as well. And you can teach him in the proper way. And it’s they this is Ah, thank God for saying I’m only 44 because
spk_1
I
spk_0
feel like the wisdom is a chef. Like I’m much older, but I still have the gusto to cook. It took me so many years to do that, man, because I don’t know how did I get lucky? I’m gonna fucking do this. We’re gonna you know, You know, we’re gonna do seem in a row with scholars to totally flavors. People enjoyed it, you know? And even, you know, doing a scallop crudo with I don’t know, I’m seeing scallops all time. I’m maybe I want some. I’m secretly hunger for them. But like carpaccio, like all the classes but mixing things together that normally have, you know that normally don’t go together. But I would just pushed at them and at the table I could act all hyped about it. You know, people are their influence very easily sometimes. And if I was excited about it, they were excited about it. It could have tastes like shit. But they still were like, Bravo. You’re the chef here. You must be great. But, you know, understanding of being innovative now you’re right. You have to listen to your clock. You have to listen to your group that you’re trying to work with and then give them something that they want. But they didn’t know that they wanted it that way. They’re excited about it. But you’re really listening to what? They they’re giving you the answers. Just just make shit up.
spk_1
I love that. And that’s that’s a great part of the creativity that comes with your professional in my profession. We get to sit back and listen and then come up with something that you’re exactly right. They didn’t know they wanted, but they see it now. That’s amazing.
spk_0
And I’ll tell you what. My business partner is one of the greats control groups because he has done very well for himself. So he’s at upper crust, the 1%. But he was brought up like low country like I mean, the dude like some of the most Southern stuff in the world. And so he really gives me great inspiration on things to cook and it ranges. It goes from people that you know, every financial walk of life. I mean, this guy, this guy is a titan and his palette, you know, he can eat great steaks all over, but he likes good chicken and dumplings and fried chicken and chicken livers and, you know, smoked pork and ribs and all that stuff, too. And so he really has is inspired me to do
spk_1
some of this stuff here, too. So speaking of, who are some of your current titans who are Some of the people you’re paying attention to that are out there. If we travel the country eating great food or
spk_0
you know, that’s a that’s a good man, that’s a good one. So, like, who do I have like a chef crash on? Exactly? It’s kind of coax on friends with some of them, but, um, you know, first I can think of you know, just what he’s done up there. Matt Cooper. You know it. Preacher’s son, you know, up in Fayetteville area Rogers. It all runs together for me, so people that love us coming northwest Arkansas and W A. But you know he’s doing things that are, uh, did you forget about the healthy side of me? Like I like all the food allergy friendly cuisines, but he’s doing stuff that is so just progressive, and he’s feeding gluten free and just foods that are so right for your body to people that don’t give a shit. And
spk_1
they’re loving him for.
spk_0
And so I kind of feel like he’s speaking to the master that like he’s hit that that you know. And he’s very motivational, you know? I’ve got, you know, David Bancroft and Leo Morelli and Auburn. I was just talking is all burned guys. David Bancroft has taken some pretty big risks there in Auburn and doing Southern cuisine and rolling with the punches. But, um, Leo Morelli, he’s the chef. It all burn. And dude, he’s doing stuff like slow old school Southern food. But it elevated level that is inspiring to me, and it’s kind of teaching me some kind of paying intention with those guys are doing right there. But then I’m also got to work with a lot of really, really cool chefs, you know, I’ve got to do it before with Bryan Voltaggio before, and that was really cool. And, like Kevin Nash and got to eat his food. Got to cook with him and ride bikes them in California. But he has Sidney Street Cafe in ST Louis. And so you know, any time I want to see, like, who would I be? Is a chef right now if I was stuck in the find, that stuck. But if I still fine dining, he’s doing things to me. That really makes sense, and he’s rolling with the punches. But when I really go outside the box and look it chefs I’ve never got to work with. But I got to meet, you know, and everybody talks bad about Gordon Ramsay. Gordon Ramsay’s actually got to meet him and talk to him. A couple months ago in November, that dude was the nicest guy ever in, like I was so fan girling over him. But, like when he spoke to me, he didn’t like the soft talk. It sounds like a crush, but like you touched my hand, you know,
spk_1
stuff like that.
spk_0
But there was a connection there, and he actually was interested in my business, how I’m doing it and you know he was like me, and it’s really interesting. I’ve I’ve learned about your restaurant. I’ve read about it. It’s amazing how you’re doing that. And to get that from him, it was like validation. You know what I mean from And I think he might be probably one of the most famous chefs out there most most. I can’t club right now, um, you know, talking about and I’m gonna keep saying a couple names here, but I got the honor because of and I’ll tell you, I guess one of my idols, I guess their local they should be bigger. But chef Jamie Mackie had a pine bluff. We teach the college to when I look at that. You know, I was talking to this late sixties early earlier cooking with President Clinton. Every time I have had something huge on my plate, I knew I could handle. I called Jamie McAfee and he walked me through. He walked me off the ledge and remind me in my life who the fuck I waas and why I’m here and how we’re going to do this. And he because of him, You know, being a chef up north, you learn about Cajun food. You learn about Popper Dome, you know, in his cage, in ways being a chef that loves Pok and all those things you think Sam Choy Jamie Mackie made it so I could cook with both those chefs and built a relationship with them And what’s cool about CM choi And I know you guys all know those pokey restaurants, everything else CM choice that the Godfather Pokey orp. Okay, um nbr chefs, we have funny jokes. Sam Choy will still text me, but hey, man, I’m was so and so send me some funny shit because we gotta laugh right now. It’s getting serious, and I can always make you laugh at the drop of a hat. But, um, you know, I’ve been in some pretty cool situations where I look up to those chefs. I think I kind of carry it with me. And like those moments I had with them and how graceful they were with me, I like to transfer onto my bringing it back. You know, I like to bring it back, Teoh, my younger chefs, But what I’m really thinking about the chefs I’ve idolized, I’ve actually got to work with him. A four medium, you know, So awesome. Um, now I’m blessed, bro.
spk_1
Yeah, well, and I was telling me earlier, you know, I mean, I feel so fortunate because I tell stories for a living. That’s that’s a pretty fun job most of time. But I get to be around people that I’m like, How did I end up in the room with you? You know, And when you when you sit back and think about your you’re exactly right, it’s just like I just work your tail off and all of a sudden these opportunities present themselves and you’re around people that you’re like. I would love to even just listen to hear you talk from a stage, much less sit and have a one
spk_0
on one conversation with Do. And I’ll tell you, Say that. And this is a funny story. And it’s crazy that I get to say this. And Paul Perdomo, you know, he passed away the same time that chef elite force really did. But Paul Prudhomme told me I actually got to give him his first heirloom tomato. And so we all know what heirloom tomatoes are now. But I was in a conference call, and when we did it, it was Arkansas was having a really rainy season. And so just think about these names involved. It was it was for Frank Broyles, for the Frank Worlds. Alzheimers, um, fund raiser because of his wife and how great, you know, get to speak with Frank Rolls. Man, let me tell you, I didn’t know shit about Arkansas football. I got to meet him, and because of Frank Rolls, I became a fan of Arkansas football. Especially because the way loved his wife and he brought all these chefs together for this one cost. And so Jamie put my name with his on my Do not love you, bro. And thank you for that. I won’t. I won’t make you, uh, I regret this.
spk_1
I make you
spk_0
proud. And so we had a conference calls all the chefs, and it was a rainy season. So when rainy seasons, Arkansas, the tomato season tomatoes will grow no bursts. I was doing a heirloom tomato salad with raw, sweet corn into the Maytag Bleu cheese dressing. Super simple. Just a nice you know, a buttermilk blue cheese dressing with Rossley Cornell in tomatoes just don’t have it up and I look great, right? Well, then the menu’s done. It’s all set in stone, and I’m in a conference call and I said, I can’t do myself and pop times like Mr For No Sidani. I can’t remember what he called me. I was just in awe that are pretty. What’s different on a regular tomato and heirloom tomato? I’m like, Well, I try to explain to him just he just wasn’t less, you know? It was just he was over it. Just do the damn menu, kid. The menus done. We’re all doing this. And so I met the time left Country Club and I’m making this salad getting it ready Property home comes in a scooter, he goes, Hey, nonny, let me try one of them their tomatoes that you got and I did me and let me tell you something, taking it back to when I was a kid in school, up north, doing the whole thing. Reading about Cajun food is proper dome fast forward. 15 years I’m handing Popper doma slice of aliens. May that he’s never tried toe, and watching his eyes light up was like watching a child Trump’s Try a strawberry for the first time. He didn’t. I guess. You know, in Cajun cooking, you know, you think about Creole tomatoes on. But we were in Arkansas. I guess we could bring it back full circle. We’re in such connect with the farmers here that we take for granted in greens that we have. And so ever since that day, it was like, Holy shit, I think that was 2007. 2008. I’m not somewhere somewhere in there. It’s all a blur. Sure, I can go back in fact, check and see what was. But I can say I gave Papa Thomas first. So I guess that’s my claim
spk_1
to fame. Way found it. We found it is it is so Sheffer know what’s what’s next? What’s the where you going from here? What you have in mind is that you mentioned your content. You haven’t fun doing what you’re doing.
spk_0
You know what’s next for me? You know I’m ever changing. Want to do something else, But right now, you know, if you’ve looked the neighborhood and since you’ve been knowing me in here and even when we did the Heffer event last year, the neighborhoods grown. It’s grown, it’s grown. It’s getting there. My number one thing right now is to make sure this business is running the way it needs to run. You know, let this restaurant let’s put a few more years under my belt here and let’s let’s make this thing very profitable. And let’s make sure that the staff I have under my belt right now is getting paid and everything’s running great. They don’t think about it. But right now, man, what’s crazy is I look at my life. I’m happily married. I go home most of time at night if I’m working nights either for a charity or it’s for a large event that we know we’re getting paid for. But, like, right now, my life is good and I don’t know. I mean, that is a great question, because I was. Chefs are like 80 d there, squirrel over here, Squirrel over there were chasing the next thing. But, like, right now, life is good, and I look at all that I’ve been through and me and I really, I really couldn’t tell you if it doesn’t involve my team that I have right now or my investor get this business successful. I don’t have my eyes on. Um,
spk_1
that’s great. I mean, focus. Now, if you have clear focus, that’s all you can ask. So I think that’s huge. So I want to do just a few kind of rapid fire questions. I love to do this part first thing that pops in your mind and weaken Skip anything you want to. Um, I don’t know if you’re a reader or movie watcher. TVs what? Which is the latest book TV show you’re watching? What stands out in that regard? Books. I e. Nice to
spk_0
read all the time until I just opened this restaurant Right now, uh, latest movie that I thought was awesome is once upon a time in Hollywood. I just saw it recently, and I’m not going to say the ending because kind of rude. Dude, what a great movie. I was on a big Quentin Tarantino fan, and I like his style.
spk_1
That’s great. That’s great. Um, daily routines. What do you have to do every day? There? You Ah, coffee drinker. Do you work out? Do you check the numbers on what’s what kind of some of your daily routines.
spk_0
So, you know, every day I did come in here. First thing I do is I make myself self a shot of espresso, and I guess lately my routine I used to be an avid cyclists and working out is bitching about how I need to get back in
spk_1
the gym every day after I shows lying on a daily thing. It is a consistent daily routine
spk_0
without tell you me and you know, real life. Consistent, daily routine. And don’t be jealous is Wheel of Fortune every day at 6 30 And if I can’t watch it, I take that shit
spk_1
as a chef that can be home at 6 30 That zone accomplished.
spk_0
Well, we’re usually here 12 hours before that.
spk_1
Yeah, I am a big wheel of Fortune fan. Best piece of advice you’ve ever received or giving
spk_0
be kind. Really? This be kind, Um, that I get Yeah, that’s it. Don’t be a dick and be kind. Love that. It’s really
spk_1
so If you were ever to write a book, what would the title be?
spk_0
Well, first of all, if ever wrote a book, the first page and last page would be an apology sandwich in between so I could say whatever I wanted. I’ve got some good stories. Uh, I guess it would just be it would be a cookbook, but it would be how to get out of any situation, I guess. With food. I love that. Yeah. How to get out of any situation with food.
spk_1
And that’s totally true. People will taste something and they’ll forgive anybody. Everything. I love that, uh, favorite artist musician.
spk_0
Oh, man. Favorite favorite. I got a few of them. I’m a huge Beastie Boys fan. Okay, love the BC boys, and I’m trying to get some indie rock right now. I’ve been listening to camp. I like Tyler Childress a little bit, but it always goes back to BC boys. Huge Beastie Boys, Paul’s boutique.
spk_1
Love it. That’s great Ago. All right, Chef, what’s your favorite dish
spk_0
that I cooker that I eat
spk_1
boats? Not gonna let you off the hook that easy.
spk_0
Okay, I could go Eminem style, say, mom’s spaghetti. But no, honestly, my favorite dish to eat is my mom’s chicken and dumplings. That stands down the best thing ever. And if I were to make it in Arkansas, if anybody hears a song like Oh my God, we want that. No, you don’t. There’s vegetables in it and it’s different than the Southern.
spk_1
Is it more of a like chicken pot pie filling
spk_0
it? No, it is, and it’s got vegetables in it. And then she takes his drop dumplings and puts him in, and they get fluffy and they turn to the steamed dumplings. It’s like nothing ever had, like an airy cloud of chicken love. And then she takes the lid off so she steams it for about. She bakes it for 20 minutes with the lid on and they rise, then takes the lid off in a brown on the top of your crispy. Have
spk_1
you ever just happen to make any? Just give me a call. I’ll
spk_0
give me called. I’ll bring So my mom
spk_1
stumping for you. But
spk_0
my favorite thing to cook, though, honestly, Is anything fish? Anything? Fish? Um,
spk_1
you have a favorite fish.
spk_0
I people say that I cook scallops the best. Um, I guess if I cooked for Gordon Ramsay and be scallops and risotto, but, uh, scallops, I was everything. I learned how to cook very well. I was taught to cook out a shame. I guess you should say, because chef leap that trained me. Um, remember, making sculpts, especially risotto. I’ve never seen anybody throw the entire saute pan. Everything that used to taste it with eat from and everything into the garbage. And so I was able to honed my craft and risotto and scarlets. That’s my favorite thing to go.
spk_1
Love that, Will Scheffer. No, thank you so much for taking the time. You’re a true titan of the culinary world. Appreciate everything that you do for the city of Little Rock and especially for my stomach. So thank you,
spk_0
man. It was all my pleasure.
spk_1
Cheers. Love it. That’s great, man. Awesome. Didn’t suck if you liked this episode of titans of industry, head to contenttitan.co/podcast for mor episodes or subscribe on your favorite podcasting app. And if you know of an industry titan that’s doing amazing things. Let us know on social media or through our website so we can tell their story. Thanks for listening
003 Titans of Industry | Lauren Waldrip
Titans of Industry | Episode 003
Expert insight on booming agriculture
Summary
In today’s episode, I sit down with Lauren Waldrip, the executive director of the Arkansas Rice Federation and partner at Campbell Ward. She represents an industry worth $6 billion a year to the state.
She talks about why people should be more concerned about the rice industry, how she’s getting young people and the community involved to help her tell the Arkansas Rice story, and why cauliflower rice is actually NOT a thing.
Show Transcript
spk_1
I kind of feel like I’m going through rush things kind of what it’s like, very stressful.
spk_0
Hey, it’s Nate. Bizarro and welcome to Titans of Industry, the podcast where I talked to industry leaders and innovators toward the top of their game and leading the pack in their fields, uncovering some of the best stories in today’s business landscape. In today’s episode, I sit down with Lauren Waldrip, the executive director of the Arkansas Rice Federation and partner at Campbell Ward. She represents an industry where $6 billion a year to state and she talks about why people should be more concerned about the rice industry, how she’s getting young people and the community involved to help her tell the Arkansas Rice story and why cauliflower Rice isn’t actually a thing. And now let’s get to the episode. But before we do, it’s important to know that whether you’re a small business owner or the face of a multi $1,000,000,000 industry, your organization has a great story to tell and content. Titan wants to help you tell it. Wear a digital content creation powerhouse built for the 21st century, providing all in creative strategic production, post production and distribution services for a 360 degree 24 7 world. In our world, titans are passionate, creative doers. They have the experience to take your project from start to finish, minimizing your involvement so you can focus on what matters most running your business. So if you’re ready to take your content strategy and production to the next level, our titans are ready to help. Now, here’s my conversation with Lauren Waldrip. All right, Lauren, thanks so much for being here. Can’t wait to have this conversation with you. So let’s just jump right in. Give me a little bit of background of Where did you come from? How did you end up with a title of Arkansas Rice executive director. Is that right?
spk_1
Yeah. I answered a lot to think that that’s one of them. So I grew up on a farm in a small rule community and East Arkansas, about halfway between Little Rock and Memphis. Didn’t really appreciate that until I got to college. And, you know, you say that you grew up on a farm and people say, Oh, with cows and chickens and you say no. You know, we actually grow more rice than anyone else here. And ah, you know, we’re ranked for other road crops as well. And so, um, in college, I kind of realized that there’s there’s more to this than I thought growing up. Um, And then I did an internship while I was getting my MBA with the Farm Bureau and realized that there’s just not in the folks that are telling our story. Agriculture is the state’s largest industry, and I knew that there was a lot of work to be done in communicating that. And that’s kind of how I got here in a more or less roundabout way.
spk_0
So did you start school in business, or did you go for agriculture? What was your
spk_1
eso? Actually, everyone else in my family went to the bumpers called the at College in Bayville. Um, and I was in the wall in college a little bit of the black sheet, probably in more ways than one. But that was one of them, and ah knew that I had experience in agriculture and kind of knew some of the things that went into that, but knew that a business degree could help me. You know, one day run my own business and different things like that. So I think it has. It’s actually worked out. I started studying accounting at first just because I knew I could get a job and that was more realistic. Then marketing. And then I realized I’m never going to be an accountant. And so, uh, just went with marketing and then got my MBA
spk_0
Very cool. Eso speaking of the black sheep, talking about the family for a minute. So you have a twin sister who is a an attorney. That’s right. And then you have an older sister. What is she? She’s also an attorney is also so Yeah, more wisdom when you’re the black.
spk_1
Well, I’m people, um, and bless his heart. I have a brother, too, but he doesn’t get much face time. He’s in the middle. So Katie and I are the youngest of four, and Alison is ah, a few like she’s five years older than us. And she she’s an assistant U. S. Attorney. So she’s a federal prosecutor. Katie works for Mitchell Williams, but they’re both attorneys nonetheless. So folks will ask me, Why didn’t you go to law school? And I jokingly like to say, Well, because I have a soul. Um, but no, they they both Thankfully, luckily for me provided pro bono counsel very frequently, which I certainly appreciate. And then my brother is also here in little Rock eso he works at Armour Banks. Um, so we’re all here.
spk_0
Very cool. All right. So a day in the life, what does the day look like in your in your shoes?
spk_1
So Becky Campbell on I have, ah, public affairs and public relations firm. Um, we dio The short answer is it’s different every day, which is which is good, and it works out well for us. But a lot of our clients are agriculturally related and so through that we do all the management for the Arkansas Rice Federation, and so ah, that couldn’t tell anything from their media, relations, communications. We handle their press and different things. We also do their promotional efforts, any of their political action committee fundraising on a state and federal level. The filing that goes along with that, their policy also in a state and federal level, we work very closely with the USA Rice Federation. Um and so I’m sure that there lots of activities that we do for them that I’m leaving out. But I think in a nutshell, that’s, um that’s what we do for them. And so we really like the, you know, the capacity that that gives us toe work and in hand with farmers. We communicate with them on a daily basis, whether it’s meetings with our membership or just talking to him on the phone, asking him how harvest is going. In fact, last week we went to one of our farmers operations and just kind of rode around with him. And, um, we just try to keep a grip on how things were going and what their challenges are and how we can help move the needle for them. Or what? You know what programs need to be improved, or how can we increase communication and and just tell their story and really try to create a face. You know, folks, aer folks are increasingly concerned about not only where their food comes from, but who grows it and how they grow it. And so that’s a story that is very appealing. I think I realized I’m a little bit biased, but, um, you know. I think not only is it trendy, but it’s sustainable in so many ways, and we have a really great story to tell in that regard. And so, um, you know, I hate to say my job’s easy, but I have a lot to work with, and some really great great folks in our membership are farmers that are involved in our organisations Arkansas Rice Federation, which is the umbrella organization. And it represents the farmers. The new policy, the council that do that does promotional efforts and then the merchants in the Millers. But those folks volunteer their time, and so they’re giving up time on their operations. Time with their families were taking a group of catfish farmers to D. C next week to meet with their legislators, and they are affecting decisions and having conversations that affect policy. That’s helpful for all catfish farmers and those folks Aer again sacrificing to do that. And I don’t think that they get near enough praise or recognition all that they do to do that. And so it’s neat and it’s very rewarding for me to be able to see that on the first day and level
spk_0
that’s awesome so backing up a little bit again when you were going to school. You realize there’s great stories to tell. You kind of saw that the direction you needed to go in order to to maybe most been officially tell those stories. But did you kind of come out of school knowing All right, this is the direction I want to go order or did. Did the rice thing fall in your lap like this? Just kind of happen
spk_1
is sure eso I think so. I was getting ready to start my last semester of MBA and had a mutual friend who had actually worked in Senator Bozeman’s office when I was there. And I think it was just kind of a God thing that the timing worked out where I could switch. I could come down to Little Rock for the legislative session toe work, ultimately at the firm where he worked that represented Rice. Um, and I could switch from the full time MBA program at the Walton College to the executive MBA program, Um, which allows you to obviously leader in being remotely, um so I came down here in time for the legislative session on just became more and more engaged on that front before Becky and I eventually bought out that firm. Um, so again, I you know, I never decided. I want to represent a new what I felt like I was good at because of my experiences and the things that I cared about, Um, you know, specifically agriculture. But I didn’t even know that people got paid to do this. Ah, you know, a lot of folks in the Walton College go, you know, they stay in Northwest Arkansas on they’ll go. Teoh. You know all that is people. Yes, yes, which are really great things. And they’ve done really great things for the state. But I knew that that was never what I wanted to do. And so, yeah, I think the Lord just kind of worked it out for me, and I said, OK, and now here we are.
spk_0
I think it’s important to talk about the fact that passion is something that really kind of can easily open those doors. Says if you already know kind of what you want to do, how you want to do it. But you don’t know how you’re gonna get there If you just follow your passion. It’s gonna all come together.
spk_1
That’s right. And I hate to use the word passion because I feel like it’s kind of sometimes overuse. People say I’m passionate about reading and I’m passionate about. You know, I think sometimes I’m passionate about sleeping, you know, But, uh, but certainly agriculture, I mean, I could just talk for hours about you know what’s helpful for our farmers and how can we open up new trade markets? And how can we, at the end of the day, move the needle for them? You know, let’s get him broadband so they could be more efficient in their operations and help feed people in a, um, in a more efficient, effective way. You know, these. I love having these conversations. And so I guess that does qualify me as passionate role models. But, um, yeah, it’s very special. And, um, before I got my MBA, I was working for the Razorback Foundation. Um, obviously invaluable. And I’m passionate about the Razorbacks. That’s what our family does. And that’s kind of, you know, some families, you know, go to the beach to do differ things Well, we do the rage of Rex and I thought maybe for a little bit I wanted to work in athletics. But, um, you know, eventually realized that agriculture is a little bit higher on my list. Go hawks. Um, but, you know, I think it’s a very It’s a very special thing.
spk_0
You can give me the stats, but right. Arkansas is the largest producer of rice in the country, and in Arkansas is a large agricultural state in general. So where does Rice fit within the state of Arkansas? Within the grant? The country?
spk_1
It sounds like you learned about the talking points, just like keep going s Oh, yes, I’ll give you the little elevator pitch for rice and then we’ll go from there. So Arkansas is the largest rice producing state. Every year we grow rice, approximately half of the nation’s rice on around 1.1 million acres. Um, it contributes $6 billion to the state’s economy every year. There’s a stat that says that every farmer, every rice farmer, generates a $1,000,000 within their local communities. And, you know, as as, you know, our agriculture is the state’s largest industry, rice is not the most valuable in that ranking, I guess, um you know, But it’s certainly substantial. And I will say that even though we represent rice, there’s virtually no such thing as just a rice farmer. And we’ve got a couple, but they’re white whales. Um, so most everyone who farms rice also farm soybeans on. And then, of course, as you know, there’s the poultry industry that that’s up there as well. And lots of other commodities that air ranked in the top. You know, 25 I believe. So, um, that the state is a whole the, uh, agricultural climate, Uh, I believe is $21 billion to the state’s economy. And so again, you know, I don’t understand. Feel like this is a conversation that, you know, you hear all the time about manufacturing or, um, you know, all the great things that are going on in Northwest Arkansas. But I think at the end of the day, um, agriculture is the backbone of our state, and I’m glad that I kind of get to tell that story. And then certainly, you know, people like to be number one and stuff and agriculture’s number one. So here we are,
spk_0
well, and it’s interesting to how it crosses over so many other industries because, um, trucking is another large industry in the state of Arkansas and global. I mean, you know, most people don’t think of the trucking industry globally as this big industry, but it’s huge. And Arkansas, I don’t remember what the number of can I think. There’s over 300 trucking companies that are members of the Arkansas Trucking Association. So you look at it from a a big statewide standpoint and trucking effects rising. You know, rice for me and the way that the rice moves and everything else. So it’s I love to talk about the cross section of industries. So what else is there kind of a cross section when you look at at what all the rice industry, uh, effects,
spk_1
so trekking for sure. In fact, we’ve been having conversations with the Arkansas Department of Transportation recently because of Harvests or deering harvest. Obviously, there’s lots of logistics that go into that in certain permits that are, folks have to apply for to ensure that they are compliant with state regulations and federal regulations to when it comes to interstate highways. Um, so you know that for sure. Um, a lot of folks don’t know that there’s background extra rice. So rice starts in its raw form. Um, is then when it goes to the milling process, first the husk comes off. Um, and that leaves a layer of brand. Um, and that’s your brown rice. A lot of people don’t know that brown rice and white rights or the same thing. So once you polish the brand off, then it becomes white rice. But I say that to say that those byproducts contribute to other industries like I’m betting for chicken houses. Or sometimes the husks are even part of the conversation for energy sources. So there’s certainly other aspects that the industry travels to, um, explorer so that they can used the entire product.
spk_0
Very cool. So speaking of rice products, one of my favorites is Cauliflower Rice, right?
spk_1
It’s not a real thing night,
spk_0
so Well, let’s let’s dive into this for a minute. I think it’s it’s it’s Ah, anybody that knows you knows that you’re very passionate about this vaccine passion. I
spk_1
really am passionate about this. That
spk_0
s Oh, So tell me about cauliflower rice.
spk_1
Sure, sure. So Well, there’s no such thing as cauliflower rice. What is? Yeah, I know. Shocker. I know, but, um, and actually, legally in Arkansas, because this past legislative session, we just passed a law that defined the word rice. Um, it gave a standard of identity to that four letter word. A standard of identity really just sets out a definition so that there’s no dispute or debate over what that actually means. And so you’ll see this done. This is a very common thing, but typically it’s done at the federal level. Ah, lot of the intent of this legislation was to encourage the FDA to do their job in developing that standard of identity. You’ve likely seen these conversations happening recently at the federal level with milk on and also meat products. And so, um, we passed that legislation at the state level. Um, I believe they are promulgating those rules right now. Um, but the background is that a ricer is a kitchen tool until we’re seeing these companies that are actually rising cauliflower. But they’re calling it cauliflower rice. Just because you put it there. A riser does not make it rice as you and I know Nate Rice is a grain. It comes out of the ground. It’s not a shape, but on a serious no. You know, I would just say that, um, rice as a grain obviously has a different nutritional profile than something like cauliflower. And so as a consumer, if you purchase something on the shelf that says Rice, where you expect that the nutritional profile, that is what you’re, let’s say, feeding your family. Um, it’s not a vegetable, and it should not be thought of as such. Same goes for a vegetable. So let’s say you buy. I call a quote unquote club qualifier rice, which is now illegal in Arkansas. But, uh, let’s that you purchase that and feed it to your child, thinking that it’s a carb because it says rice. Um, but your child developed Taibo glassy me because they didn’t get to the nutrition that they needed because you thought you were giving them a carbon. You actually gave them a vegetable. And now here we are. But really, at the end of the day, this is about consumers, um, and them knowing what their purchasing and what they’re feeding their families. You know, we welcome those products We just want consumers to know what their purchasing. These companies have made it very clear that their intent is to brand it as actual rice. In fact, there’s one company, right, Rice, their CEO, was quoted as saying. Um, in fact, many consumers don’t even know it’s not Rice, and that’s obviously a problem. Um, and so you know, the A. G’s office has has defended the law is saying It’s inherently misleading labelling, which is, you know, it’s just, you know, it’s frankly, it’s not, um and so that was, Ah, project that we worked on last year, too, to try toe set the record straight so that everyone knows that rice is a grain. It’s on a shape.
spk_0
So became law in Arkansas. But this this went much bigger than that, right? It was a conversation well outside of Arkansas.
spk_1
That’s right. Yes. So we got some some interesting media coverage out of that. Um, and you know, I think we’ve seen some of these companies revising their labels, cause you can. They are able to you, at least in Arkansas, they can say rice. I mean, that’s a verb. You can’t really that subjective. But rice has a noun, Um, is not is not. But I would also say Louisiana passed some similar legislation. And again, this is hopefully in theory, just to kind of equip FDA. Teoh, you know, set the record straight. On a federal national standpoint,
spk_0
it seems to be working.
spk_1
Yeah, we’re still pushing it.
spk_0
Yeah, Yeah, I’m sure it’s an uphill battle that will, you know that
spk_1
it’s a process. That’s right. But every chance we get toe touch base with them about it we’re pushing for and we’re also having some congressional conversations on the national level as well.
spk_0
Super cool. Um, so I would kind of consider that among the, um, in the category of kind of innovations in the industry, Right. So you’re doing things that are sort of unconventional, helping kind of push legislation and changing the way people view rice as a grain versus of vegetable. What else is happening in the industry that you would look at and say There’s some really cool things having really innovative things?
spk_1
Sure. Well, you know, when we come to work, I would say a lot of what we try to do is handle things that our farmers I don’t have time to handle themselves. That can essentially add value to not only what they do every day, but the product that they grow to feed us and our families and our neighbors and the world. Rice plays a significant role in food aid again in countries all around the world again, a lot of that is storytelling. And so I’m just trying to think, I would say one, um, new kind of outside of the box thing that we did this year that was wildly successful was starting a program called Rice Rips. And so, um, a couple years ago, we started Ah Rice license plate through the state, and that gave us the resource is and the funding to start a scholarship program and said This past spring we opened up the application period, I guess, and it’s four at that point. It was folks who were juniors who would complete the program over that summer and then their senior years when it would end. And, you know, I had no idea what kind of interest we would have. We had done some other scholarship programs before, but they just there wasn’t very much participation, and I wanted to make sure that we’re good stewards of these resource is, and we implement programs in ways that will actually help move the needle in measurable ways. And so we opened the application period and we had over 200 kids apply from all over the state, some from ag background, some not for mag backgrounds. And so that was really, I guess, humbling. Just to know that these kids are interested in learning more about the industry, whether they’re from and add background or not. Um and so we wound up accepting around 50 kids, and I didn’t want it to be. I didn’t want there to be a lot of mandatory things. I wanted it to be very autonomous and whatever they were interested in to take advantage of that, we could equip them with the tools that they needed to tell our story and to learn more about the industry in that process. Um, and a potential career in agriculture later, I just wanted to provide all those things. And so, um, we had different different field days. We did a cooking class for them with the division of Agriculture. We, um, took him to one of our farmers operations. Deering. I guess he was irrigating at that point until it was really interesting to see kind of the wheels turning as they saw these things. And and we’re learning and posting about him and telling their friends about, you know, the industry and what that means. And then in September, we gave out the final scholarships and, um, wound up giving out over $15,000 to these students. Um, some of you know, many of which will go study agriculture and they’re in higher education. And, you know, again, I was just really pleasantly surprised at, um, you know, at the feedback that we got, um, and also just the folks that we have been able to reach and again tell that story through kids that are interested in it.
spk_0
So half this conversation’s been about storytelling, Which, of course, I love because that’s what I do. But so when you think about these high school kids being able to go out and tell stories, did they just naturally get it? Was there a lot of disconnect or or did you feel like it was like a really kind of organic process that they just figured it out.
spk_1
That’s funny that you said were gaining because that was about to say that. But, uh, yeah, you know, I wanted it to be. You can be as creative as you want in the activities that you choose to do or not to dio. And, you know, we’re here to support that and to answer any questions that you might have. Ah, some of I mean, they did a really good job, and I was really impressed with them. Some of them took the initiative to set up their own farm tours with some of some of these farmers. And some of my members were calling saying and I said, Is this a thing like, am I supposed to? You know, I’ve had students reaching out to me, and that was not facilitated by us. That may be encouraged, but ah, you know, it was it was very rewarding to be able Teoh kind of create, I guess a platform for those conversations toe happen. A lot of these kids went to you know, girl stay together, boy, stay together and have developed relationships that they will continue. And I hope that they can. I’m not just benefit from the new friendships but also kind of collaborate with, um, other peers that share similar interests in promoting the state’s largest industry.
spk_0
I want to drive a little further into this because I think it’s interesting. I talked a lot about replicating and multiplying messages, right, The whole point of video and audio and everything is you want to multiply your message, you don’t you, Lauren, don’t have to go say the same thing over and over and over. Um, so I think a lot of industries, a lot of brands can can sort of take this approach and use, you know, high school kids, people that are interested in passionate about an industry or or product or whatever it is, and turn them into ambassadors that can go and sort of spread the word, tell the message through their own eyes. But did you ever feel like you were losing control of the brand or the story or anything like that? I’m curious, just from ah control standpoint, cause a lot of brands. I mean, they’re very particular strict brand got things like that, and then a lot of industries don’t want the wrong message, so was that ever Ah, fear that kind of live in
spk_1
Absolutely so. And I can understand that, cause we’ve done other projects where we’ve maybe worked with bloggers or something than you know, these air, the talking points and this is the logo. And this is I mean, like, you’re saying the brand, but I didn’t want to give these kids too much structure. I didn’t want them to have to go by checklist. I wanted to again provide these experiences, and resource is for them. And then I wanted them to curate that however they saw fit because that organic story toe hate just keep saying storytelling. I
spk_0
would like a word ever
spk_1
painting that picture organically. I felt like was a lot more valuable than me giving them some sort of canned pitch. Um, you know, this is what you know, maybe one rice rep took from the farm tour, and she thought it was interesting that, you know, our farmer has saved this much water in this much time. But maybe this restaurant up took away something completely different about, you know, feeding the world or, you know, other great things that farmers do. So, um, I really didn’t want to provide that. That structure that sometimes people are very particular. Sometimes I and I am very particular about
spk_0
Yeah, well, I think perspective is good, right? And to your point, this this allows you to get different perspectives from different people. Um, but I think it’s such a fascinating, an interesting concept to take high school students and let them go tell the story from their own eyes. And if you don’t lose too much control and it doesn’t become fake news, so I think you’re OK, Yes. Was the public’s perception like I mean, I think a lot of times we we want toe think people won’t get it. But I also think people are smarter than what they are saying. That the public get it. Like these kids.
spk_1
Yeah, well, we had some feedback from our students saying that they would have their followers reach out and say, I didn’t know you were into rice, but that would just create again a workday in a conversation in which the student was able to say, Well, I wasn’t really. But, you know, if you think about it honestly, we all should be, because when agriculture successful. When our farmers are successful, our whole state is successful. Um, and that’s, you know, something that no, everyone realizes until you kind of put two and two together.
spk_0
Yeah. Okay. I want to shift gears just a little bit. Talk to me a little bit about on kind of a national level. Arkansas being the largest producer of rice in the country. California things number two. That right?
spk_1
That sounds right. Yeah, I believe that,
spk_0
Um but I guess going back to where you and I first met was in at Five Oaks Live? Yes. And outside. Are you USA, Right. So that’s kind of what I wanted to talk about is you’ve got a federal organization, and then every state has their own. But we met through it was Sara’s Weeknight Meals, a TV show that was sponsored by USC Rice. And we went made like rice balls, fried rice, which was a farmer recipe. So there’s a lot of interesting connections in ways that the rice industry as a whole starting at the federal level, is kind of pushing the use of rice promoting it in different ways. Um, So how do you interact with other organizations outside of Arkansas.
spk_1
So we have a very close working relationship with our friends at us. A rise in back. They’ve got two staffers who work here in this little rock office, and it’s very beneficial for us to all be able to communicate. I’m on a daily basis and be on the same page. Josh Hankins and Emily would all our are here. They are more focused on conservation efforts, but you know, farmers were the first conservationist they depend on. Natural resource is to you, continue producing a safe and quality food supply. And so that’s something that’s very important. And I’m top of mind for them. And so, you know, the role that Josh and Emily play here is is very important and crucial to what they do every day on a federal. On a national level are USA Rice Offices, based in Arlington, Virginia. So just outside of D. C. And they have a staff of just over about 20 folks who you, um, at a lot of value to what are farmers do. And, um, you know, from the communications point specifically again, we work in tandem with their team because we’re the number one rush producing state and really tried to make sure that we’re all on the same page that, you know, the right hand talks to the left hand so weekend will complement each other and not recreate the will. That’s one of my biggest pet, PGE’s. Why’re we re created what? Someone already did this? We don’t know, Um and they’ve got some really talented folks up there that, you know, that worked again, push our message. Unfortunately, in the US, we’re seeing an increase in imported rice into the U. S. And I think a lot of that is because of consumer preferences for some of these aromatics. You know, jazz, mons, buzz Mahdi’s things like that. But we’re actually growing those here, which is good. Um, and so but just telling that story, you know, look for the USA Rice label, you know, support local farmers. This is how you can do that. And this is what that means to our economy in in the how beneficial it is when you support those farmers. So we do lots of neat things with them. Last year, they brought theme think rice truck to Arkansas, and we they went on a road trip all across the US and they, in fact, just started doing that again this year. I’m in the Northeast, but, um, you know, giving out rice cookers and encouraging rice consumption. And, you know, a lot of the feedback that that we all got from that was, you know, we grew rice here, which is crazy. And like you had to dry, especially in Little Rock. You had to drive past a rice field to get here. So let’s have this conversation. Um, so that’s just one example of some of the neat project we’ve also worked with. We just completed rice month recently, which is in September, but USA Rise partnered with some local restaurants to do a, um, influence or food tour. We also Arkansas rice partnered with local restaurants to do some 70 September promotional. Ah, campaigns. Um, and so we also work with them very closely on a policy level, obviously, um, you know, they do lots of work that is very influential, too. Things that affect our farmers every day. Um, so
spk_0
that there’s
spk_1
probably a lot of things on the down.
spk_0
Um, Well, speaking of things like that, So right here we’ve got second Rodeo beer. Um, so tell me this story behind this and and kind of how this came to be and the significance of it,
spk_1
and as a bow she may know, is the largest domestic consumer of Arkansas grown rice. Um, not all. Obviously, beer manufacturers use rice, but Anheuser Busch certainly does. And I feel like you can taste it when you drink their beer. Um, however, Rice has recently been seen, I would say, kind of as a step child in craft beer, and we have really been having for a couple years now, we’ve been having more and more conversations with some of our local breweries about incorporating rice into their beers because of what it the crispiness that it can add to the beer. The 1st 1 that we did was with stones through, um and then now we have a canned beer. That’s with Lost 40 and it’s called Second Rodeo. And again it uses Arkansas grown rice. Um, you know, and they were very concerned about telling that story and really capturing, you know, this is the face of of the farmer and this is the farm where this rice was grown, Um, And so we got to do some really fun things with them as far as capturing that and developing that and telling that story, and we’re still continuing to do that. Um, in fact, I think this will be in stool in Wal Marts soon. Now, which is news. I’m very
spk_0
actually, we’re kind of on a regional level. Do you know,
spk_1
um, I believe that lost forties only distributed on the state level. Okay, but Wal Mart in Kroger’s in organs are we’ll have it. And, uh, yeah. So that was just a fun project. We’re also working with Rob town right now to distill a rice bourbon. Um, and that’s been a very long process. I don’t know if you know anything about distilling bourbon. I certainly do not. Um, but we’re working with Phil Brandon over there and and his team. Um and we’re really excited about that. I think it will come out in a couple months.
spk_0
Phil is a fascinating guy. When I first moved Arkansas, one of the very first videos I ever made was of rock time distillers.
spk_1
Really? It’s such a neat
spk_0
stories, really cool story. And the thing that blew me away more than anything. Is Phil’s walking around tasting these bourbons at, like, 9 a.m. Thing product. You know, insurance. Are there any specific concerns regarding the state of the industry that you know are on your radar that people need to kind of be considered off?
spk_1
One is the fact that consumers don’t really understand the risk that farmers absorbed to put a crop in the ground. Um, I mean, these folks risk millions of dollars during planting season every year, and they do it knowing that prices are volatile markets or risky. Who knows what the trade calm. It’s gonna look like tomorrow, Um, and even Oh, and don’t even talk about weather and flooding. So even with all of that uncertainty, they accept it just to put a crop in the ground and in any other industry you were return is gonna be proportionate to your risk. But with farming, that’s not the case. And I don’t think that farmers get enough credit for accepting that risk. Um, when you know, often they don’t. I mean, they’re going out of business every day. That’s no secret. And so, you know, I certainly think it’s something worth recognizing and something we’re talking about appreciating and just for agriculture in general, I think that you may be used to things were very seasonal, and farmers kind of had Amman set of this will blow over. You know, we the prices will be better next year or things like that. And margins are so low right now that we can’t operate that way. Um, and you know, farmers obviously know that, but I think we cannot use the excuse of because that’s the way we’ve always done it. And, um, and ironically, I guess it’s almost kind of encouraging to me sometimes when, ah, you know, unfortunately, here, maybe a farmer say that, Well, we’ve never done that before and yeah, well, we don’t really have a you know, we’ve got Teoh whether it’s adopting new technologies that help us, you know, save water that we used to irrigate or gauge soul moisture levels to again to irrigate more efficiently, or, um, you know, measuring things that we want to track. Um, you know, when we’ve got some really progressive folks and some of those technologies again are are being successfully adopted and deployed. Um, I think we just have to continue pushing for increased efficiencies. Um, and you know, again these new technologies, because you know, legacies and, um, I guess tradition really have a lot of these operations depends on them. Continuing to, um, be more effective and efficient.
spk_0
There’s ah, conference I go to every year in Los Angeles called Worlds and founder and CEO of the conference. His name’s Roman Sunder Roman gets on stage and kicks things off, and he says, We’re here to do the n b D B, which has never been done before. And he’s talking about the idea of bringing cultural icons and world class marketers and CEOs together to kind of come up with what can we do that’s never been done before? That’s gonna help shift a culture shift industry shift. You know, brands into new ways of doing things, because we can’t always just do it the way it’s been done. We need to seek out what’s never been done before, and it sounds like that’s the exact same thing going on in this industry as well,
spk_1
right? I mean and changes, you know, obviously uncomfortable a lot of times, but sometimes you just have to accept it and embrace it and just try to figure out how to navigate it in interest, that you will figure it out in a better way. I would say, you know, the Rice reps program was a perfect example of that. We went from having, you know, a program with no participation, no amplification. Um, that did not utilize social media at all. And I just you know, look, we This is where we are today. These conversations are happening whether we’re part of them or not, and they’re happening on the internet. And, um, you know, we’ve got to get there. You know, I think if you put some thought into it and some strategy into it, um, you know, and think about what actually makes the most sense, you just kind of jump sometimes.
spk_0
Yeah, well, I love, and that’s one of the reasons. I mean, we’re talking. I think off camera about the idea that, you know, um, you don’t strike me as the stereotypical person that I would see as the executive director of agricultural industry, but it’s it’s because of the things you’re doing and all these amazing things. I’m not gonna ask your age, but thank you. You’re significantly younger and less gray headed than the person I would maybe hysteria that we put in the chair. But I think it’s it’s showing that these are the kinds of things that takes. This is the thinking. This is the way to move an industry forward and make sure that we’re still relevant in years to come.
spk_1
That’s right. Well, I think I appreciate that. But, you know, and I’ve always thought night that more time. More often than not, you just have to be willing to work Carter than other people are not. You know, I feel like I certainly am, Um but yeah, I think that it’s just something that I genuinely care about and do. I work with lots of men who have daughters my age. Absolutely. But I feel like I can hold my own, and I feel like I’ve earned their trust. Um, And I have you know, enough street credit, um, Teoh to be able to operate effectively. And, um, you know, it’s been, I think, from a professional standpoint, um, you know, my business partner is also a woman, and ah, we’ve had some, um, learning opportunities. Um, but e I mean, we do a good job. Ah, and you know, I’m proud of the work we do. I’m proud of the progress we make. I’m I’m also proud of the clients that we represent. Becky and I started, came award. It was something that the Lord kind of worked out, and it happened very quickly. And, um, it was another thing where we jumped and had to trust the fact that we were gonna work hard enough to make it work. Ah, and we did.
spk_0
That’s awesome, I think, shifting gears to the business side for a minute. I think a lot of people won’t have their own businesses want to jump off and kind of company things. But talk about the importance of Becky, your business partner, and and sort of the complementary nature of y’all’s relationships.
spk_1
Well, she’s the most important. So let me just be clear. See? Make sure that we do all the important things. I kind I’m just the big picture dreamer. She tells me like that’s more in. That’s not the budget war. You know, you’re supposed to be here at that. I mean, she is. She is the brains behind the operation for sure. And, um, you know, I don’t know. I’m fortunate to certainly have her is a best friend, but I don’t know how I looked into convincing her to go in on something 50 50 with me where we are 50 50. But I would tell people that she’s my boss because, well, she is, um in fact, she had a baby. Not that about seven months ago now. And, you know, we had prepared for maternity leave. You know, we’ve coordinated with, um, our staff and knew kind of what that was gonna look like. And it was fun. We didn’t go j like, you know, we did get a letter from the iris at one point. Oh, no, this is it. But it was a credit. Anyway,
spk_0
you leave more off.
spk_1
So So I was prepared for all of that, but I waas your was not prepared for my best friend to be tied up for, you know, eight weeks or whatever. I mean, I would be at a luncheon, a business luncheon, and I would text her and say, you ask your question about who is that one person that I need to touch base with this and she would not reply for something like 30 minutes. And I am just think. What is she? It’s like she’s raising a child or something. Why can she not take me back? So, uh, yeah, but she’s She’s really amazing, and I I feel like we complement each other very well. She’s She’s very type a, um, very organized, and I kind of shoot from the hip and some somehow we meet in the middle on that. I don’t know how she deals with me, but, um, I certainly appreciate it very much.
spk_0
We’ll conversation we had earlier today with producer Lauren of the podcast here she brought up the idea of, ah, another guy named Jeremy Cowart who’s a celebrity and entertainment photographer out of Nashville. He does a lot of amazing work, but he he has a business partner named Michael, and Jeremy refers to Michael as the peanut butter and Jeremy’s the jelly. So you’ve got a peanut butter Italian and every good business relationship, Um, somebody that’s sort of the structured, sticky one. Make sure, yes, and I have the base, and then the jelly that just kind of is all over the place and a little bit crazy. And, you know, but but the same time that we’re both are equally important to have a great sandwich. So, um, bring that one full circle.
spk_1
Yeah, well, I you know, I always heard peanut butter and jelly, but the runny structure part that makes a lot more sense now. Yeah, we’re the way where I get it.
spk_0
Eso What’s next on the horizon? What big things air to come or what are you working on that that’s exciting and fun. Um,
spk_1
yeah. Eso farmers are in harvest right now. Um, so we have been kind of dreaming about this event for a couple years. Um, and this year has, or I hope it is going to you from coming to fruition. So at the end of October, we will do an event that’s called downtown on the farm. So I walk you through a little bit of maybe what that thought process looks like in the strategy and why we’re doing that. But, um, as I already said, you know, Agriculture State’s largest industry. So I thought, Well, there’s nothing that really talks about agriculture in Arkansas, and there’s nothing that brings all these commodity groups together. You know, again, I know I work for Rice, but I am just pro agriculture in general. Um and so I thought, What if we did something that we all collaborated on and just kind of told that story? You know, explain to consumers and folks in quote unquote urban Arkansas, I eat literally, um, how farmers or preserving natural resource is and growing food for them and, um, different organic conversations like that, I guess. And so we came up with downtown on the farm. And, um, you know, we’ve constantly been having to have this conversation of agriculture in areas like Little Rock. A lot of times will partner with the downtown literate partnership for obvious reasons, but they do a really good job of, well, frankly, throwing parties and really getting folks to show up to events. And we are friends with those folks over there again. They just do an outstanding job. And so at the end of October will have this event, and so we’ll have live music. Um, we’re bringing in on Arkansas native who I think is in Nashville now. Adam Hambrick. He’s the headliner. Um and then some local music acts as well. But then there will be your standard. You know, food, trucks, vendors, um, you know, pumpkin patch, pumpkin painting, face painting, petting zoo. Um, let’s see, what am I missing? Um, so all that kind of stuff. But then also, we’re partnering with local restaurants so that folks can see the entire farm to table process. Um, we are, um, partnering with other like agriculture, educational entities. So, like the University of Arkansas Division of Agriculture, the Game and Fish Commission, different entities like that just to have that conversation that a lot of consumers don’t know about. And so I’m so close to this I didn’t really have a good gauge to know if it would be successful or not, and we haven’t had the event. But when we have the press conference, we just got so much coverage about just earned media about, you know, what is it and what does it look like? And when is it? And and so that was really encouraging. But then I realized that we were kind of like the dog that caught the car, and, um and, you know, we jumped right in and so, but planning for that has been great, and it’s it’s gonna be hopefully very successful. Um, and something that we can continue in the future, um, again, just to talk to consumers about where their food comes from.
spk_0
I love it. Well, by the time it airs, the event will have happened. So hopefully we can do a little tag on or something at the end here. Yeah. Repair closed. Yeah. Closed the gap on what’s going on. But that’s exciting. I’m looking for I can’t wait. All right, so a few quick questions, that kind of things out. Um, are you a reader? What’s the last book you read or what? Your favorite book.
spk_1
Right now. I’m reading dispatches from PLU Toe. I like to read books. I can kind of relate to you. I’m kind of in the Carol Chlor right now. So he’s an artiste. That’s from Elaine, Arkansas, and went to do really great things. And unfortunately, now his paintings were really expensive. But, um, I like him because he’s from the Arkansas Delta, right? So but dispatches from Plato is about ah, a couple who moved to Pluto’s Mississippi from New York and It talks about all the things that they where that were initially odd to them. But then they realize it’s just kind of part of the Delta in the history that’s associated with it. Um, and that’s about as far as I am into the book right
spk_0
now. I love it. Um, are there any specific daily routines that you like have to go through every single day that, like, you know, help you? They become more productive or beneficial?
spk_1
I try to read this scam. I don’t know if you’re familiar. It’s like a daily email I have to work out in the mornings because if I work out after, well, I don’t work out after work because, you know, you work Glade and then you’re tired and you don’t It does just doesn’t work. I mean, this is work, so I lag toe workout in the mornings, but that only happens about two days week. I mean, quiet times really important to me. So I can, you know, spend time talking to the Lord and try to get my head on straight and focus on things that are actually important. I talked to my twin sister just about every morning on the way to work. When that, you know, that’s just kind of ah thing that we’ve done for a long time. So, uh, I think that’s about it
spk_0
of it. Best piece of advice you either given or received.
spk_1
I’m hesitant to tell you this, but I find myself saying all the time and this goes back to that, not recreating the wheel. So the first thing that popped into my head was work smarter. Not harder just because why, you know, when I try to remind myself of that On a professional standpoint, if I spend my whole day just busy, busy, busy. But at the end of the day, what did you accomplish? You know, is that really moving the needle? Is it you know, being effective ator for our farmers or for backing in our firm or whatever. Um, you know, I try to remind myself of that. You know, don’t need to set 100 meetings you don’t need toe. I feel like young professionals or professionals in general. Really? Just are all the time. Bragg a busy bragging bragging about being busy like that’s your problem. You know, like I’m let’s be real. We’re all busy. So, you know, I tried. I don’t even tell. How are you busy out? Well, really. We all are. So go right ahead. Ah, but you know, I think that there are ways to kind of mitigate a lot of those issues that are self inflicted because I don’t think, you know, it’s not important to spend 60 hours a week at the office. There are ways that you can add value probably more effectively, but not doing that.
spk_0
I love it. Speaking my language. Um, if you wrote a book or had a billboard, what would the title book be or what would your message on a billboard may?
spk_1
Um, let’s say the billboard would probably say, Eat rice that’s so unoriginal. Um, but the book would probably be about twin stories. I feel like I have so many stories about being a twin, you know, funding instances, different things that I’ve learned how I feel sorry for people who are in a twin. I don’t know. I mean, it’s a lot of content. I feel like hopefully she would help me write. The book
spk_0
was about to say it would have Teoh OK, do you have a favorite farmer?
spk_1
Um I mean,
spk_0
I don’t want to get you in trouble here, but come on, we’ve all got
spk_1
Well, let’s be clear. I have a chairman, and he’s my boss, so I feel like I need to be clear, But I also have a board, and they’re all really great. Teoh, um, you know, we have some farmers who are more involved in others. Um, so it’s
spk_0
very PC answer. You can leave it. That
spk_1
s what’s the answer. I love all my Children saying that I don’t have kids. I don’t know how that really works, but, um, be I believe it will leave it there.
spk_0
All right? And if it wasn’t Rice, what would you be doing with your life? I
spk_1
think the cool came out. Rice is that I would probably do it for free. Don’t tell my farmers that because it’s good to be able to pay your bills. Uh, but I mean, I think maquina both are very interested in involved in different organizations that specifically feed hungry our kansans and even, you know, yes, we have our firm, but we come to do that to the side through volunteer capacities Now, Um, Becky used to dio through a professional capacity. And so my initial inclination is to say, we would be me because I really like to eat. And ah, you know, I you know, like, for other people to be able to eat. So I mean, that’s my first thought is that we would help feed people.
spk_0
That’s great.
spk_1
Which is kind of what we do now. So I don’t know if that really counts.
spk_0
Last question. Beer, wine or cocktails.
spk_1
Well, I think I’m really big into being appropriate. So I think if you’re at a baseball game, you need to be drinking Beer
spk_0
Road. Second
spk_1
Rodeo. Where in Hazzard? Brosius? Absolutely. Um, I think if you’re, I don’t know at, you know, a fancy dinner party, maybe wine. However, I think rules can be bent. I don’t think you have to have red wine with your sake. If you want White wanna go right ahead saying with fish? Um, I think pretty much most rules air negotiable. That is one of them. I mean, eso it’s, but that is one that I think’s flexible and has has no wrong answer.
spk_0
So what? I hear you saying is you, like all and do not describe forms for enough. Well, Lauren, thank you so much. This has been a pleasure. Thank.
spk_1
This has been fun. Thank you.
spk_0
If you liked this episode of titans of industry, head to content, tightened at CEO slash podcast firm or episodes or subscribe on your favorite podcasting app. And if you know, oven industry titan, that’s doing amazing things. Let us know on social media or through our website so we can tell their story. Thanks for listening.
002 Titans of Industry | Chase Rackley
Titans of Industry | Episode 002
Expert insight on successfully growing a real estate business
Summary
In today’s episode, I talk with Chase Rackley, a realtor and business consultant of the Rackley Team. His experience in marketing strategy and sales has launched a highly successful real estate business in a few short years.
Chase talks about how hearing a lot of “no’s” inevitably leads to “yeses,” invaluable lessons he learned from mentors and friends, and how starring in funny music videos has become part of his brand.
Show Transcript
spk_1
what’s happening in the real estate industry 10 years from now, what’s your prediction?
spk_0
I think we’re all gonna die.
spk_1
Hey, it’s Nate Dissarro and welcome to Titans of Industry, the podcast where I talked to industry leaders and innovators toward the top of their game and leading the pack in their fields, uncovering some of the best stories in today’s business landscape. Today’s episode I talked with Chase Rack, a realtor and business consultant, directly. His experience in marketing strategy and sales has launched the highly successful real estate business in just a few short years. Case talks about how hearing a lot of knows inevitably leads to yes is also invaluable lessons he’s learned from mentors and friends and how starring and funny music videos has become part of his brand. And now let’s get to the episode. But before we do, it’s important to know that whether you’re a small business owner or the face of a multibillion dollar industry, your organization has a great story to tell and content. Titan wants to help you tell it. Wear a digital content creation powerhouse built for the 21st century, providing all in creative strategic production, post production and distribution services for a 360 degree 24 7 world. In our world, titans are passionate, creative doers. They have the experience to take your project from start to finish, minimizing your involvement so you can focus on what matters most running your business. So if you’re ready to take your content strategy and production to the next level, our titans are ready to help. Now, here’s my conversation with Chase Rackley. All right, Well, welcome, Chase. Thank thanks for being on the show.
spk_0
Oh, my gosh, I’m fired up here,
spk_1
so let’s just jump right in. I want you to start by telling me who was chased Rackley as a kid. What were the things that you enjoy doing when you were youngster?
spk_0
I appreciate you ask, and I probably wouldn’t normally, uh, tell people this, But as a kid, I mean, some of my favorite things to do that I remember, was ding dong ditching shin all circle and hiding a camera across the street in the trees so I could film people’s reactions as they came out looking for who is ringing the doorbell. And I would put the you know, the content together in a video and share it with the rest of the neighborhood kids. And that was like my first, you know, experience of, like, making a video and, you know, knocking on doors. And I feel like I basically do the same thing. Now I’m, you know, knocking on doors and trying to get people to come and let me sell their house.
spk_1
Fair enough. The stakes have changed a little bit. Just a little less of a you know, you’re just trying to get a rise out of people now. You’re actually trying to That’s
spk_0
right. Yeah. Now we’re trying to help people. Yeah. I mean, as a kid, I used to love, you know, making videos and doing projects for school. Like the opportunity to give a speech always pumped me up. You know, in fact, there were a couple of classes where I really struggled. But then when the option came to maybe do a speech or a video presentation in lieu of ah ah tests, it was my time to shine. And it kind of rescued me when there are opportunities to show a little bit of creativity. And that’s what I remember most as a kid is just really enjoying creative outlets, you know, playing around the neighborhood kids ding dong, ditch in, whatever, just with great great friends.
spk_1
So one of my favorite questions asked Titans, is what was it that propelled you to enter into the industry? Most people, you know, the select few that kind of know they’re career path from age to which is very few people realize, You know, they kind of have it figured out, and they just go that way. But for most of us, usually when we enter college, we don’t really know what we want to do on a lot of his exit college and still have no clue. But we now have a history degree or an art degree, and we’ve got to go make a living, talk us through how you kind of got to that point question.
spk_0
Yeah, so in college I had someone reach out to me and say, I need a website for this new restaurant that we’re starting and I want to pay you to help build this website. And I had never built a website my life, but I thought may have been I could find a good team of people on this campus to help me figure that out. And in that effort I met, you know, there’s this guy named Nate, actually was his name, and his passion was making websites. And so he was the first person I called. And through that friendship, I just kind of ask, man, could we help this client together? And can I have the opportunity to watch and study what you do on building this website? And because he was, hey was kind of an outcast Socially, he spent so much time investing in How do I discover this client’s needs and become really provide exactly what they need? I want because I might not fit in. I want to make this business look so good and so that they fit in with their clients. It was a really interesting experience connecting with him. And so, through that relationship, I felt I fell in love with marketing. You know, how do I make a business look great? How do I make a product? You know, something that people want to experience and not just on a aesthetic level, but also on an understanding the code level, the behind the scenes. How do we How do we set this up? And at the end of the day that it’s making money for the client. And so through that relationship we started a small business. It was called Rackley Creative, and that was actually our real estate business. Became Rackley Creatives, biggest client. But Teoh, not fast forward too fast through that, Really. I went from the marketing business to the automotive industry, doing marketing for Crain Automotive. And that’s when Roddy McCaskill came in to meet with me about buying a car. And I was just so impressed with him when he was just an incredible negotiator. And really, I just thought, Man, this guy is impressive. And so I asked him, I said, Roddy, what
spk_1
do you
spk_0
do? And his answer, for whatever reason, really stuck with me. And he said I sell homes and his old country Southern accent and flipped his business card to me and kind of a suave way that really stuck with me. I said, Wow, what is that like? And he just kind of told me about this industry of selling homes, and it’s an incredible industry. And so, uh, crazy timing, the dealership I was serving ended up selling and and so there was, ah, major shift at that corporation. And so in that season, I thought Washer. Now, if ever now is the time to consider if I was to tap into another industry, what would it be? And so I had the gracious support of my previous employer, who paid for me to go to Atlanta, Georgia, to take the Johnson O’Connor Aptitude Tests and anyone who’s able to invest in that type of aptitude testing I would strongly challenge to take advantage of the Johnson O Connor have to sue tests or some sort of, you know, deep testing. I mean, it’s crazy, like I walk in the door and they like, throw balls at you and evaluate how you respond When they, you know, shake your hand, they evaluate. How hard did you grip? You know, they will play two tones like
spk_1
the beep
spk_0
and say which one was a higher pitch? You’re like, Oh my goodness, So it’s a really deep, detailed aptitude tests, and at the end of it, they said, we think your most profitable industry and most energizing industry that you wouldn’t engage would would likely be real estate. I said, Wolf, I’m
spk_1
all in, baby, let’s go. So this was a scientific endeavor? Is a scientific
spk_0
endeavor? Absolutely. Yeah. So I called Roddy and said, Hey, I wanna apply my marketing experience to your business and he said, Good news. I’m about to retire in about a year or two. I want to teach you everything I know. And he was so generous and taught me everything that I know. Roddy was a top five producer on the city of Little Rock for he says 40 but provably 35 years in a row. And he taught me everything that I know.
spk_1
That’s awesome. Well, that’s a great entry into, Ah, market is by having somebody with that much experience at that sort of level of I guess he would be kind of the predecessor to hurt concept. Absolutely. So you come into an industry with a marketing background, and then you get I guess the appropriate licensing and training to become ah, real estate professional and you start running with the ball, right? So, I mean, I’m assuming you didn’t take much time to kind of get your feet wet.
spk_0
Oh, yeah, No, I mean, it was It was really cool, cause Roddy did bless me with the opportunity to serve some of his clients that I absolutely did not deserve, you know, like a chase. Here’s a client that’s called in. Take them, find them a house. And, you know, that definitely was a major blessing to have someone who really trusted me before I deserved it. And also, he was really wise to not just give me business. In fact, he even told me that the best way I could help you fail is by giving you business. The best way I can help you succeed is by helping you grow business and create business. So is challenged to me was Chase just make 20 calls a day like and I’m Dermot Connections. So I would call, probably make 50 to 70 calls to actually have a conversation with 20 people a day. That was my goal. I wasn’t gonna go home till I had 20 conversations a day, and I couldn’t qualify it as a conversation unless I asked the question. Who do you know who needs to buy home or sell a home that I could call today
spk_1
I know a lot of people who either get into business for themselves or are working at a job, and they just feel like I’m not successful enough. I’m not, you know, growing fast enough. So this isn’t the right opportunity, and a lot of times what it is is they haven’t done the right things. They haven’t taken the right steps. They haven’t worked hard enough, and they think that it’s gonna come to him easily. And so I think that’s great advice that he gave you, too. Absolutely, too, not just give you business because I’ve seen it time and time again that you even have a great mentor who wants to take you under their wing. But they give you too much, and it’s the same thing I have to be careful with my kids is not just giving them stuff, make him earn stuff, making him feel the importance of putting in the work and growing yourself so that you can grow your business. That’s good. So as you kind of continue to progress and move into growing your business, what were some of the things early on that you, um and even tapping back from to your childhood. But what are some of the things that kind of you know, You kind of now realize this was crucial. This was monumental in my early days and sort of forming a successful business.
spk_0
Yeah, I think that it really helps that for whatever reason, I idolized Roddy. Um I mean, I thought of him as a father figure to me and just a background on me. I kind of, uh, grew up with the double kill of two dads. However, neither of them really were like that Super. I mean, my biological father wanted to be affectionate and present. However, he wasn’t able to because he left my mom, and so my stepfather was was, you know, gosh, he could not have been more generous and more faithful as a stepping into that role. But it’s it’s a little different. Like, how do I love you as a son? And so, in a weird way, I kind of grew up with a a boss, you know, someone who taught me the value of, you know, I’m seeing my biological father at the time making decisions that were like, Okay, I don’t want to end up like that because you know, it was leading to a position where he’s not experiencing, You know, the special relationship with the rest of our family on. But I’m seeing my new father, Larry, who is very successful in this business, very successful in his marriage and his fatherhood of the other mother, siblings and eso. And the biggest thing was that he was a solid believer. And so I’m seeing this value of, like taking your roles in your responsibility and your systems is a family very seriously and so in the same way, I kind of took that. You know, I really just valued on a very deep level Rod ease leadership. So when he told me about his system, it wasn’t just a game or an idea or suggestion. It was. This is how you keep away from having a life that’s gonna miss out on on great memories. And I feel like I should say that David, my biological father, has really stepped in back into our life, and I’m so thankful for him and he’s doing a great job. I couldn’t be more proud of of him in the relationship. We’re building now together, but really I think that Roddy had systems that I studied intimately and documented thoroughly. And in fact, I brought them with me right here. I started taking notes when I was studying under him and just it was at first a journal and then became a business plan. And and it’s really, you know, it all comes down to making consistent moves and prospecting. Uh, I call it my G task. It’s G T A S C, and that’s generate leads, train appointments, servicing those leads and negotiating contracts if I’m not doing one of those five things and probably wasting time, So I try to make sure that in my day, every day I’m working on those five things is much as I possibly can.
spk_1
But I think this is a crucial time Teoh in inject that, you know, you know, talk previously that been fortunate to have conversations with some incredible people and titans of all different industries. And one of the things that is very consistent with all of them is exactly what you just said. You break it down into systems, you document you create a note system that works for you, and you don’t really deviate from that system. It’s always crucial. Teoh re evaluate and see if that system needs to be changing, moving and adapting. But once you’ve got a system in place, that system is your life. Bless right, and that’s how you move forward. That’s how if you get outside the system, you know, you have to re correct and come back inside the system absolutely, and so that for that reason alone, it’s It’s no question that you’ve seen now some tremendous success in your business. And I have to interject for people that don’t know anybody that has a senior, doesn’t doesn’t know who you are. You may not know how old you are, so I can Absolutely. How old are you? Chase?
spk_0
Yeah, I think I’m 28. Yeah, I’m about 80% sure Could be 29. I really don’t remember A wild three years. We have just been head down. I’ve had three babies in three years. We’re building a house or second house within that three year period. And, you know, we’ve grown off. You know, we’ve personally sold about a gosh. I don’t know, a t least $75 million worth of real estate
spk_1
so 28 years old and really only been doing real estate for three years, right? Essentially. Well,
spk_0
I’ve been selling on my own for, you know, after Roddy retired, it’s probably been about four years. Yeah, four years.
spk_1
But we’re not talking decades here, right? Yeah, that’s incredible. So let’s jump in now, Teoh the industry. Right? So we’re talking about the real estate industry. Um, and obviously you’ve made some impressions in this market in Central Arkansas, which is which is where we’re at. So talk to me a little bit about the history of kind of when you entered into the industry where it was that and sort of where it is now.
spk_0
When I first entered, I think it was 2013 which was the kind of the butt end of, Ah, many recession. And it was awesome because the biggest thing that I did was I was so nervous to call friends and family. And so to hit my 20 contacts, what I would do is I would call expired leads people who are raising their hand trying to sell their house, but they’re trained. Their contract expired with their last realtor. So there They were on the market for probably 3 to 6 months and didn’t sell. So I would call him and say, you know, Hey, I was curious. If your house is still available, why do you think it hasn’t sold yet? You know, let’s figure that out. So, um yeah, I mean, that was kind of the beauty of starting in that season is that it was a great way to build listings. Um, And then, you know, now we’re actually on the move towards likely another recession. In fact, just within the past day or two, they’ve announced some some some news that will that suggests, will likely see a similar likely, you know, different in some ways, but a similar recession. So it’s, you know, it’s gonna be a great time for, um for people who are gonna be able to dig into the to the hard systems of Colin people that are expired. That’s gonna be honestly, it’ll be easier to get listings and harder to get home sold. But at the end of the day, you know, people are always gonna be want to make moves. I think if you’re faithful to do your G task you really have nothing to worry about. People are always gonna be ready to make a move, and they want to work with somebody that’s gonna make that move more profitable and more exciting and a better experience overall.
spk_1
So the word recession and real estate in the same sentence is often scary, for most people have already scared. Nervous. I mention it so well, let’s let’s dig into that a little bit because, you know, 2008 before you’re really in the industry, Um, I won’t even ask what you were doing in 2008. That’s care anything about. But, um, but, you know, when you think about recession and real estate, it’s one of the biggest things. Most people are fearful of my house, my property values gonna tank. So I’m not gonna sell or I need to sell now and get out from under it before you know what? How do you as a someone who is a self proclaimed advocate for the buyer or seller, what do you say to him during those times? What’s what’s kind of the role of, um, you know? Yeah, that’s a
spk_0
great question. And the good news is If you’re selling in a recession, you’re likely buying in a recession. So in fact, it’s it’s actually not a bad time to up size. If there’s a recession, it’s a great time toe to go and get it sold. And buy a bigger house by buy low sell high. So it’s, You know, if you’re buying and selling, the damage can often end up becoming somewhat of a wash, depending on a number of variables. So I would say, Don’t be discouraged. You know the market’s gonna do. It’s gonna dio It’s best Teoh. Ride the wave and make sure you’re working with somebody that’s gonna help you be as profitable as possible through that,
spk_1
It’s great, Um, so I want to jump back into, um, some of the things that you know again real estate. There’s a lot of agents out there. There’s a lot of people who choose real estate as a profession. There’s a some people to do tremendous in it. They make a great living. They provide for their family, they have great lifestyle. And then there’s people that struggle really hard. I don’t know how toe get listings. Don’t know how toe um service their clients well, and it sort of becomes this thing that they have to get out of. They have to go get a job somewhere else, even if they love the industry. So from your perspective, what are some of the characteristics? Some of the things that kind of make you and make people great in this industry?
spk_0
Yeah, I’m glad you asked that question. People can be great in different ways in real estate, and just being a top 10 producer in cinch Arkansas doesn’t That’s not the only metric for being a successful agent. I would say that there are plenty of other teammates that, you know, like there’s a guy in our office, uh, that I wouldn’t want him to hear may say this, but I think of him as your he’s like, so boring and so hard. I just wonder, like, How do you grow your business? Dude, you’re
spk_1
You are so
spk_0
like, just funny. And so however he does good, he’s faithful to his family. I honestly I look up to him and I try to learn a lot from him, and in fact, he he, uh he and his family are heavily involved in our pack, which is the Realtor Political Action Committee and when you know when it comes to economics, and how do we make sure that our industry is doing well and growing like he’s a better person to talk to? And so I try to learn from him and I try to really study him and his in his best practices, but also say, You don’t have to be an extra vert to be successful. You don’t have to do exactly as I’ve done. In fact, I would argue, Just be yourself, find who you are. No, your story. Ideally, get a great mentor, that confined tune and tell you, you know, Hey, that’s a great character element about yours. You should lean into that and really grow that that gifting or hey, that’s something you probably shouldn’t do is much. And that’s that’s the beauty of a great coach. So you know all to say, I think it’s less about You need to have this character characteristic, or you need to have this attribute or this personality, and it’s more about adapting your efforts to your aptitudes.
spk_1
That’s great. That sounds very scholarly. Um, I want to touch on this for a minute because you mentioned a couple of times and just knowing you extrovert uh, let’s go explain a little bit about how you’ve proven to people. Maybe that you’re OK being in the public spotlight and that you’re not afraid of putting yourself out there.
spk_0
Yeah, that’s that’s a great question. It’s It’s cool because it reminds me of how my biological father, David, who is really is charismatic and just great about connecting people. He was a sales coach for, you know, the medical industry and just has done a lot in that in that realm. And he used to just challenge me. Hey would say Love the spotlight, all eyes on you engaged. Embrace that everyone look at me And it was such a good challenge. And it kind of encouraged because at first I thought, Am I am I wrong for wanting all eyes on me, you know? But he really all came from his challenge. I think it was my first like interviews, and he’s like, You need to go in there and be absolutely confident that you want all eyes on you. Watch me succeed, and that really challenge May t kind of realize like it’s okay to be who I am. I mean, this is very selfish enough. I’m almost nervous to say it, but I I love it. I want the camera on all the time. I performed better when I’m being watched and I’m when it when there’s an audience, you know, it’s even kind of a joke at my gym. Like they When they yell my name, I lift harder. And so the coach and the rest of the teammates where lifting with me. They’re like,
spk_1
Go Jason.
spk_0
They’re like, not even watching me. But I think they are inside. I lift harder, and so you know, I don’t even remember what the question was. But I just think it’s good to say it’s okay to embrace who you are, even if it seems like you know, I really don’t think that it’s a you know about hogging anything as much is that you want to use the gifting that God has given you till leverage that for blessing the people around you. That’s Michael.
spk_1
Well, I think one of the reason I bring that up is I think one of my first introductions to you was a video that I saw online somewhere, and it’s you may be doing a rap song or something. You know, it’s It’s one of those things that you think of somebody trying to sell houses in there, out there doing a wrap with some buddies. And it’s I who does this. It’s right, No, but Chase does this and it’s It’s for you and it works incredibly well, joins the attention that you’re wanting up.
spk_0
Kristin Kennan, who is a business partner. She owns a rolls here in Seoul. She is been such a great partner on that cause. She just really thrives in that spotlight and loves making parody videos. So together we have loved making some some crazy videos. You know, the millennial is the largest buying demographic, and if I’m completely honest, it is hard for me at times to release. I love making those videos, but it’s like hard for me to release it cause I get nervous. Like, what about that section of the demographic pool like, are they going to not love this or they’re gonna think that’s not professional? But the other day we’re in a new world like professional doesn’t mean boring with a briefcase professional means personal and being true to who you are and producing powerful results. And that’s what we do. And so being a silly singing about how we sell homes for more money than the average Walter, or for faster than the average, it’s it’s all for fun. And it has been a great way to kind of celebrate the success that God’s blessed us with and blessed our clients with. In a way, that’s just terrible, enjoyable content. I
spk_1
want to make some war.
spk_0
We have to make somebody s.
spk_1
But listen, my company content Titan is you will know the number one thing I preached to customers and consumers and even some of the talks that give us it’s all about relationships and authenticity. Are you doing or creating those two things? Because what we do is create points of engagement. We want to give the audience a place to engage. And if we’re not being relational, if we’re not being authentic during those points of engagement, then they don’t care that yeah, Aziz, fast as we can swipe up on our phones these days, if you don’t give me a reason to stop and start to build that relationship and be authentic, be who you are, you said in just a second, Be who you are, is what your biological father told you, and it’s okay to do that. And I think a lot of times we feel like Why can’t be that way because I’m not supposed to be that way. It’s not the way my neighbor is. It’s not the way my dad, That’s not the way my mom is. It’s not the way my best friend is, so I can’t do that. We don’t give ourselves permission to create goofy videos and put it out there, and then all of a sudden it’s a big hit and it has. However many thousands of dollars in 30 knows who are, and next time they want to sell their house and they’re thinking of who do I go to? We know what that was actually pretty interesting. I think I recall Chase. Yeah, and before you know what, you’re selling $75 million in real estate in county for years, so it’s, I think, something that people need to be okay with, and maybe you start small and you start just by doing something with your close family and Onley. Release it to your extended family 11. And then you start with the next step of close friends and sort of go from there. But I think a lot of people feel like I’m not extroverted. I’m not the person who is supposed to be in front of camera. I’m not supposed to put content out to the world, and it’s okay to not be in the spotlight all the time. If that’s not who you’re built to be. The P is like you said. Be who you are, right? And whoever you are, people are Okay seeing that. Yeah. So what are some of the other things? I mean, our videos of the main way that you kind of yourself out there and have you Are there any other ways? And speaking
spk_0
of like, the you know what we’re doing, Teoh grow the business and the spotlight thing is that I would say the spotlight is probably 20% of it. You know, the things that I get to sing about are created in the 80% of the time where it’s a closed door. I’m on my phone making calls and I’m swimming through nose to get to Yes is the successes is not found in the spotlight. It’s the spotlight is a celebration and a fun. It’s a talking point. It gives me something to talk about when I do make this calls and I don’t know. I mean, honestly, it has happened. However, it was never truly the intention that someone would watch our video. That’s the fun ones of the music is and say, I’m gonna call Chase to sell my house It’s happened, but that that was never really the goal. It was more about having fun as a team, celebrating like I said, celebrating the success that God’s blessed us and our clients with and and just having fun as a team being who we are, you know, it’s just, um this is found to be a little bit fun. Everyone smile
spk_1
and again, I’m a huge proponent of stories. Storytelling is, I think, that the crucial part of being human, no other living breathing thing can tell stories right, So stories to me are everything, and I was listening to somebody the other day that was saying they learn a new craft every year. They something physical that you can learn. Do with your hands woodworking or stained glass making or quilted whatever it is they just They set out every single year and they learn a new craft. And somebody said, Well, you know what? Why do you do that? What your motivation behind? Are you trying to become an expert at it? Is it just for fun? And he said, Well, really, more than anything, it becomes a story that whenever I go someplace, I see a stained glass window. I can talk about how that’s because I have how is made or you see a quilt on a couch at a friend’s house and you can talk about what goes into quilt making or whatever it is. And it’s about this story, so they learn the craft in order to engage more. That’s a manager story.
spk_0
New hobby. Every year.
spk_1
That’s right. New craft. Yeah, so I thought that was pretty interesting that, you know, again, storytelling is so much, Ah, part of who we are. It’s our DNA. It’s It’s the only thing that sets it. Not the only thing, but it’s one of the major things that sets us apart. cerebral e some any other living breathing thing. I think
spk_0
it’s set me apart in this industry in the sense that just like he said, this this market, this industry of real estate agents, it is saturated in quantity. However, it’s not supersaturated in quality and people who are saying this is all ideo I’m 100% focused on this. I’m specializing in in one area or, you know, less than an area in in one, um, element of residential real estate, meaning luxury market or foreclosures or flip houses or property management. It is it is not supersaturated and people who have dedicated an extreme focus to doing really well in the industry. Um and so I think, having an understanding of my story and quite honestly, knowing the importance of the story. I made that very important to myself from the beginning. So I was part of documenting. It was, how can I make sure that I understand my story thoroughly so that I can tell my story? And so, ah, lot of our time has been spent on personal development and really understanding. Who am I? Why do I exist?
spk_1
What’s the point?
spk_0
Why am I selling a house. Why am I even talking about real estate? It all because if you don’t understand the why, you’re not gonna be powerful with the what?
spk_1
Simon cynic Right there. If you’ve ever read Simon Senate, start with why that’s is one of his famous books. And it’s it’s that exact mentality. Yeah, Why am I doing this? What am I doing? You know, So let’s shift gears just a little bit and talk about some of the technological advances that are affecting the real estate industry. Every industry has disruption with technology these days. I mean, the last 20 years have been so monumental in the way that industries have started shift and change and really for real estate since 2008. Of course, everybody now is, is wondering, Are we gonna fall back into the same things we did before? There’s new government regulations, But now there’s significant, um, technological advances in the in the real estate industry. And I’m curious how some of those well, first of all, what are some of those in your opinion, that air disrupting the industry? And how are real estate agents and professionals adapting to those changes?
spk_0
Yeah, some of them the technological advances I’ve seen most recently, the 1st 1 that comes to mind. For some reason, we just opened up a property management division at a realty Arkansas. We’re trying to directly Reynolds, and we’ve had some success with some of our clients who are not able to afford the sale. Actually, they could afford it, but they could find out they could actually make more money selling it a year later and leasing it for a year. So we call that directly rental program so we’ll get a tenant in there. They’ll be there for a year to, and we sell it on to make a little bit more money. So but in the rental market, they’re starting to rent auctions, and I found that pretty interesting. So people are auctioning. It’s like a uBid, almost eBay style on how much you’re willing to invest in this apartment or this house toe live there because it actually makes sense like someone is. A doctor who’s moving down on wants to live right next to his hospital, is probably willing to pay twice a ZMA much is the average person who is gonna run out a three bed, two bath in that general area because it’s a perfect fit for he and his family s. Oh, so a bidding situations that’s gonna that’s going to change things a little bit on the property management side. The second thing and truly probably most disruptive in a way, if you can call it that is flat fee broke broker. Just flat fee brokerages. So the thing about the flat feet brokerage is in fact, one of my good buddies, Matt Lamb, is he’s really good at this. He loves creating flat fee brokerages or just discount brokerages in general, and then kind of setting up their systems and getting them there. They’re kind of the started and then selling them. He’s, you know, he’s had some success in building and then selling broker just backstory He built and sold I Realty Arkansas on and we Were designed to be not a flat fee brokerage were designed to be, you know, a luxury experience, a white glove service. And then he went from there to trying to create a flat fee brokerages eso I love to go more into the back story that another time as if I’ll ever have the opportunity to come back here. However
spk_1
we’ll have you back. Yes,
spk_0
it’s been recorded. So, uh, the thing about the flat fee brokerage, though, is that you’re not You’re not getting the full service brokerage, uh, capacity of just doesn’t fund the ability to have a team that’s gonna be able to provide the level of service that most people need so that the concern is that, in fact, Oxford just did. A study on this is actually really surprising that there’s they said, that there’s a 90 plus percent chance that realtors will be obsolete in 10 years and due to artificial intelligence, a lot of that makes sense in the sense that as transparency increases, the need for a mediator that was one of things I love about Roddy is that he told me you are a mediator. Don’t back down. For whatever reason, there’s there’s this stigma of like, don’t you want to be the middleman? But like Roddy was like, I’m the middle man, and I’m happy toe create peace in this transaction and make it a smooth experience. So I love that he was able to lean into that not shy away. Well, the artificial artificial intelligence is is really able to eliminate the need for a lot of that middleman, uh, services, things like, what is your house worth? Um, you know, even showings like it could be argued that, you know, kind of like, really right now is a way that you can go look at houses that you’re wanting to rent, and you can actually sign up and basically be able to tour the property without having a realtor there. Um, I think you have to, like, pay a fee to be able to do it, but, um, yeah, so I mean, gosh, thistles. So there’s so much that’s happening in the real estate industry, and it’s hard Teoh to go into t too much detail without being so speculative. And at the end of the day, I think people always want to deal with people and people want to be. You know, if I had to guess, I feel like I’m like, trying to be like The Simpsons, where they always predict the future. So now you know lets me right now. So I want to watch this back in 10 years and say how right was. But if I had to guess. I think that brokerages and teams like ours. We’re gonna be just fine. But the people who are not trying to create a white glove service or luxury experience, the people who are just basically have their license and want to just make some money on the side that it’s gonna be so much harder to survive with that. T even make enough money to keep your license. You know, because you’re gonna happen at that level of service that you’re providing, you’re gonna probably have to be at a price that doesn’t make sense for you to stay in business. Which is why most flat fee brokerages don’t survive long because it’s not a long term business model that traditionally has succeeded, however, maybe with the artificial intelligence it might grow. But I think for people who don’t want to do their own taxes, don’t want to cut their own hair, don’t want to move their own lawn, they’re always gonna want to hire real estate professional to make sure that they are winning in their real estate transaction. That’s where I come in to make sure they win.
spk_1
That’s a good point. I think You know, a lot of times in life we we outsource of things that are inconvenient to us, that air too difficult to learn there too difficult for us to be ourselves. And we choose to do the things that are easy. That’s what we want to do, things that are easy and so often times we will spend money where it makes sense to spend money because it adds convenience and convenience. A lot of times equals happiness, right? They say convenience and relationships are the two things that lead to happiness. And, um and it’s not money. It’s just money can get us there, right? That’s the mechanism. That’s tool. So, um, now it’s interesting, though, because in the car buying world now we have APS weaken by cars on. Now we can go to carousel style vending machines in their car Vonna, right where I don’t have to go deal with car salesmen. God forbid, jump in and immediately, by the way, we can think Robin, our producer for pointing this one out. But, uh, but, you know, to your point, though, um, organizations like yours, they’re gonna be just fine. Because the service, the level of detail that you can put into the carpet to the carbine, the home buying experience. People are always gonna want that. That’s never gonna go away. But for people that see it as transactional and see it, how is that going to affect maybe the next tier down? How do you see the industry as a whole Right now, I don’t know what the number of agents in the country is, but how many real estate agents there is? Do you predict potentially a drop off? Oh, yeah. Good luck. Just getting that’s awful.
spk_0
Rewind? Uh, yeah. No, there it’s the barrier of entry will increase, which has been a desire for a lot of the top racers for years. It was it was something that, um honestly, even I shouldn’t say top producer. I don’t mean just financially top people who take the job seriously. It’s it’s important that the barrier of entry to become a real estate agent or a broker becomes harder. I mean, gosh, it it shouldn’t be as easy as it is to become a licensed real estate agent. And you know, there’s part of me that’s thankful. But mawr of me is eager for us to as an industry increased the barrier to entry and and make it a bigger deal. Ah, higher standard of ethics. A higher standard of performance. Ah, higher level of of work required to provide that service to the client that is required for to say yes, hire me to sell your home. And speaking of selling, I think that you will you will continue to see the real estate. If I mean, if I had to guess, I think that the real estate professionals will likely become more and more valuable to sellers and potentially less unless necessary, for the trends at the people who just see it is transaction. They don’t care if they get the best deal. They don’t care if there you know, getting a fair treatment from, like the proper title company, or they’re getting the right lender or getting a good deal on their moving expense or even, you know, all the title fees, whatever, like they don’t that might not be as important to them. They just want to get the best deal on convenience. You know, for instance, Zillow offers that’s doing a lot of what you’re talking about. Zero offers a study this to be transparent for the first time Really today Because I knew you were gonna talk about this because I I’ve actually been curious about this. What is what is the I buying experience? Gonna look like? I’ve
spk_1
I’ve been a little
spk_0
bit worried about it. Uh, like,
spk_1
what is this gonna look
spk_0
like? How am I gonna manage this? Because obviously, we’re gonna do it, because I’m gonna be I’m gonna I’m gonna ride the wave. Whatever the wave is, I’m gonna be riding it. Yeah, and I’m gonna be ableto you want to make sure we’re providing a great service. A client? Regardless, whatever the technology is, we want to be in the forefront of it. So what I’m finding is the Zillow offers program costs the client the seller 7.5%. Well, on average,
spk_1
that’s above. Yeah. So, uh, convenience. There’s your convenience,
spk_0
convenience, they they use it for convenience. And
spk_1
you can get out of your house whenever you want at your
spk_0
house in a few days. And, you know, Roddy McCaskill had the guaranteed sale program, which is the originals. It’ll offer so well. Yeah. So I’ve actually been doing this already, not knowing that that was like when people were talking about I buying. I had no idea That’s really what they met. It’s just like it’s just a guaranteed sale at a certain price, often less than what you could sell it for if I actually brought to market. So our team right now it’s not. It’s not all that uncommon that we’re selling a house for more than it can praise, which is not what you wanna do on. You want to sell a piece mostly can possibly A price is the goal. But were you know, just this week we’ve had one that came back. You know, I hate a price for 3000 less. So you know, that’s kind of the goal is to sell it right at the most it can appraise for, and that’s not gonna happen with an eye by experience, you’re going to get a conservative deal, which for some people, that’s what they want. They
spk_1
want to move on. I gotta get out.
spk_0
That’s perfectly alright. You know, that’s probably that’s exciting for them. Toe have that opportunity. Do
spk_1
you anticipate? You know, we talked about potential forwards recession coming up. Will this I buying and Zillow offers opportunity. Could that help or hurt the?
spk_0
It’s hard to know because I don’t know how the algorithms are working for. First of all, we don’t really have that happening in Iraq right now. The Zillow offers is not operating here.
spk_1
Major markets are, Yeah, I think it’s have
spk_0
I think they bought, like, 700 homes this past year. It’s crazy. They have been buying a lot, but we haven’t seen it in Little Rock. But so so I definitely can’t attest to like, if they were buying in Little Rock, I could pull up on this statistical map. I could say, Hey, we we probably not even just our team But just like this, in a proper, properly marketed property could have sold for X dollars. It’s sold for wide dollars. And so over all the hundreds of homes that sold Zillow offer style Redfin or whatever the My buyer programmer offer pad, I think, is whatever the other honest, those have sold for X dollars versus why, and so what we’re seeing is yes, who it sold for 3% less than probably they could have made with having a licensed realtor represent them.
spk_1
So I’m curious to Forbes put an article out earlier this year about several different sort of disruptions in the industry and one of the things that they talk about. And you know, Forbes is talking about it. Then we better pay attention. Right? So, um, Blockchain in real estate. Yeah. Talk to me about that.
spk_0
Yeah. You know, im I’d really love to, like, interview someone who really understands that thoroughly. I have a very limited understanding of Blockchain from all I know. If I had Teoh talk about it, I would I think of it is like, Thorning I don’t know if you’ve ever like tourney. This probably shouldn’t talk about. I used to love to warning, uh, you know, which is where you basically can download. Um, I just have to confess this in order to be able to explain how I understand it, But like, I, when I first got in, the marking of business obviously was a little low on cash. So I tormented a w photo shop and Adobe premiere in Adobe Final cut her final cut pro. And so, in order to do that, what you do is you get these programs that cost 500 bucks or $600 or obviously, uh, some expense, even if it’s just a dollar. But what you can do is you can get it for free by downloading pieces of the file from different sources, and it comes in a torrent file, which is a bunch of little sections. And then you could you combine these little files into one folder that and then you upload through your your platform and it it runs the software. So from what I understand about Blockchain is that it is basically torrent ing the real estate index. It’s taking pieces of data, things like there was a survey on this property. There was a recent sale of this price. There was a recent sale of this price. It was there was an insurance claim of this. There’s another entrance claim of that. Based on that this is probably a fair purchase Price press here to buy it, you know, or or press here to get a new you know, I don’t know a new survey or ah, a new I have no idea. That’s all I know is it’s tormenting the real estate index.
spk_1
I think part of the the objective here’s is to, um, you communicate the fact that that things were changing rapidly. There’s all kinds of new technology. There’s new innovations AI and machine learning. You know, Zillow and organizations like Zillow are doing what Airbnb did to the hotel industry and what uber did to the taxi industry. And, you know, But the thing is, those industries air now stabilized. They’re figuring out how to exist with each other and coexist in those same spaces. And I think my assumption is that’s gonna continue toe happen within the relaxed 100%. Um, so there’s a lot of sort of debate nowadays, especially with the millennial generation and younger people about the buying versus renting. My dad, if you didn’t buy your house, you were wasting money. As right now, there’s all kinds of research, and everything else comes out saying, Well, buying might not be the best idea renting maybe a better ideas, especially given your stage of life and where you’re at and absolutely and not paying the interest on a house, which is often as much is that this house itself, you know? Yeah. So What’s your take on that? And obviously you’ve opened a management company. So that’s so
spk_0
glad you asked. Yeah, I’m a huge fan of running, which is what you don’t expect
spk_1
to hear a little counterintuitive coming from this. Yeah, so
spk_0
I’m a huge fan of it. And really, I want to say this that my job, even though I’m paid by it, is not to sell a house. Really? It’s to consult on making you make a wise move. I a moment that I realized I was in the right business in the right industry. For me, there was a pastor. He called me probably three years ago, three or four years ago, and he said, Hey, I’m I’m got an awesome opportunity to go become a new become the new head pastor of this church in Dallas. It’s incredible opportunity. They’re offering to pay X dollars for me to move. I’m so excited. I just need to come to sell. My house is absolutely can’t wait. Came over per normal. We did a thorough broker price opinion at the time. I couldn’t call it that market analysis on the property on told him Hey, this is what the fair purchase price for your house is this is what you would net once we get a closing table. This would this at this price would be a high five moment at the closing table. Uh, let me let you know if this works. Let’s to do the deal, man. That’s that’s about 10,000 to low. I can’t I can’t afford that. Even with the support. And in that moment, him saying, You know what? I’m not gonna take that pastoral role. I just can’t take that much of a hit. The financial overall deal didn’t make sense for his family, and I left that meeting with the same sense of joy that I get at a closing table. And the feeling of like I read a normal experience might have been all he wants to sell his house. Perfect. I’ll talk him into signing the listening agreement, get signing the art. He’ll be surprised or slapped with a you know, at the closing table, potentially or even after he gets the offer. That man, he goes through all this work and realizes that the total net proceeds is way less than what it was. But instead it’s like my job is not to sell its to guide people in the process of making a move. And I really did. I felt energized and, like I did my job and it was just a successful and exciting as it is, if it were as if we were high fiving at the closing did well and that was a moment for me. And so, in the same way, I have no intention of telling someone they should buy house if they need to rent a house. I’m running a house personally way built our last house. We sold it. And so we were like, Man, you know, gosh, what we’re gonna dio. And so we decided, Let’s build again. And so instead of doing what you’d probably think normal and buying another house way decided, Let’s rent. Yes, that’s right. So we’re running a house right now, and it’s been awesome. It’s been really a great godly, no maintenance way. We call when? Gosh, when the toaster oven doesn’t work. She’s
spk_1
like, that’s an appliance that you put on
spk_0
the counter. I’m like, Ah, but I want a toaster strudel. Come fix it now. We don’t have to just rules But that’s the idea.
spk_1
Yeah, well, I think that’s that’s a really interesting just taking concept. I mean, there’s definitely days, weeks, months that I wish I was renting my house because I would love to call somebody to come fix. You can be sure that, by the way, can’t be fixed by maintenance. It has to be replaced. So there’s $4000 you know, and all these things that
spk_0
I have an idea on that.
spk_1
But I can actually
spk_0
see that there’s a home warranty plan I can hook you up with. We’ll save you some money.
spk_1
Oh, trust me, it’s I’m the kind of guy who’s got it the first year we moved in, and we’re not going to need it, so we can tell you you don’t think about it. Um, but, you know, I think it’s just a valid conversation. Point is buying versus renting in the fact that we used to think growing up for me, the American dream is to own your own home and to move in that first time and feel like this is it. We did it, and now you realize it, and I’m not talking anybody out of buying a home. I of course there’s often it’s a great investment opportunity. And for certain people’s lifestyle, that’s what you want. That’s what you need. But I think it’s opened up the conversation that it’s actually okay to rent a home or condo or whatever you want to. And you’re not throwing money away. That’s right, because that was the mentality that I kind of walked into adulthood with. Yeah, was, if you’re renting your throwing money away,
spk_0
yeah, and you’re not. And here’s why. Uh, if you’re gonna live somewhere for less than really bright three years at the minimum, you’re probably not gonna make money selling it. Arkansas
spk_1
is one of the
spk_0
most instead able, consistent markets. I love Arkansas. It is a beautiful market to be in, quite honestly, for someone like me who’s just constantly eager to be one of the like on the cutting edge and trying to figure out what can we do to be the leader role of of our market with technology and whatever we are able, we’re so spoiled. I could just watch the agents and Austin, Texas, in Los Angeles. Even New York and I could just study them and apply some of the things that they’re doing on our scale, and it it’s really are genuinely don’t feel like I’m all that creative. I’m just a do or like I just try to do the things I see that other people do. Well, I just try to do it in my own way in the same way you know, we we as as a city little rock. We are so good about learning from other cities, you know, last the meeting way had we get together with for, like, the go green little rock planning stuff for the with the mayor. You know, he was talking about how we were learning for him from the city of Boston, and they’re starting to do like green rooftops. And we’re starting Ellen, if you noticed. But we’re starting to do like more greenery on our roof. I just love that our city is learning from other, bigger cities that might have a little bit more of a volatile market where LaRock were so relatively consistent and safe. And it’s a beautiful place to live.
spk_1
So we’re coming up on sort of the end of our time, and I wanna jump into a couple things one halfway there way. We’ve talked a lot about, um things you do that that not everybody does your A do. Er I mean, that first and foremost is something that I talked to a lot of people, and they’re afraid to reveal secrets about their business or they don’t want to talk t certain things because they think somebody’s gonna steal it. They’re gonna go do it. The problem is, 99% of people aren’t going to do it. And a
spk_0
lot of realize that I used to try and keep it all secret. That’s why I printed off my business plan for you, Nate. I brought it. You
spk_1
know, I’ve been thinking about getting into the real estate business, so I’m gonna literally take it and take
spk_0
over my business. It is so transparent. And it is really that simple. It really is. It’s It’s so just about being consistent and committed and faithful to just follow through. Like, do what you say you’re gonna do that. I had a guy that got into the business about the same time as I did. In fact, I he was my first additions to the original Ogi Rackley team and he lasted less than a month. And it was hard because I liked the guy and I really enjoyed working with him, but he didn’t do simply The things that he said he would do idea are typically most importantly for the client. Like it wasn’t like he told me that he would tell the client, Yeah, I’ll be out there with our video and are camp are you know, the geography and our drone, you know, will be there tomorrow and he, like, wouldn’t show up. And I was like, Dude, we can’t play like that And just like, half of the battle is just like showing up. Do what you say you’re gonna do like either either promised less Or do you know what you promise? And so you know, we got, you know, just did show up. Do what you say you’re gonna dio be committed. Do do your G task. It’s really honestly that the business is not that complicated. I think if you have integrity, if you have commitment, if you have passion uh you know, you always have to have passion like my your friend. You can just show up you’ll still price sell about 10 year. That’s
spk_1
crazy. Um, so we’ve kind of talked about this, but in your mind, the people that you have, the opportunity mentor and the people that have meant toward you, you know, we’ve talked to Petra friend Roddy. What does it take to be a titan of real estate?
spk_0
Gorgeous. I think it takes integrity because that was the thing I saw Roddy do. Well, that really stuck with me. Most is in moments that he could have taken advantage, or even for two, particularly a moment stands out where he in order to get a triple stacked deal, which is where the buyer who was buying his listing, which his the buyer of that property that it was contingent upon him selling his house in the house that he was buying was contingent upon that purchase of his house, which is really not very common, that you would have a triple stacked deal. And, uh, it’s kind of a crazy story and to spare from all the time of the details, Basically, it’s crazy. But he said, I need each person to give me $1000 mawr of Kip Commission. I
spk_1
guess it’s crazy. I wish I need to
spk_0
go to the detail. I’m not, but I should to be able to make it make sense. But he basically said that. He said I and I need more commission from each person and he was going to basically personally pay for the appropriate repairs to make sure each deal got done. And it was crazy because like, he had a had a deal to be able to get that at a fair price. It’s kind of a long story. Basically, every client knew his reputation enough to say, OK, here’s an extra $1000 to an agent That’s not even representing me in this transaction And they made it work and he got the deal done, and that was that was a special moment. In fact, Keller Williams and I was there. They had me come and share about this to the entire brokerage because I was so impacted by it. It got around like Chase has been talking about this integrity, integrity, like, how do you What is integrity look like? A top producer? Because quite honestly, in the wonderful wise words of my friend Rebecca folks, she says it’s lonely at the top is lonely at the top. So you don’t have many people vouching for you. And so I was It was kind of exciting for people to hear about, You know, someone’s matching for Roddy about his integrity. Because, you know, you get a lot of haters when you’re a top seller, and so I’m vouching. I’m saying do It was so inspiring to see his integrity. So I got to share the story of how Roddy said, Hey, pay me extra. I’m gonna get these deals done for everybody. And he did it. People trusted him. And that was a moment for me that said, I want to lead with integrity. So our Rackley rule, we have 15 Rackley rules directly. Rule number one, His prize integrity over profit. Yeah, Most powerful, I think. If you if you stay true to that continuing to prise integrity of a prophet keeping people above all else, you’re gonna win.
spk_1
Well, it is no surprise in my mind that you are a titan of the real estate industry, so I want to go through a couple of rapid fire questions will wrap up our time here. Um just whatever comes to mind. Quick answer. So what? Single resource to get the most valuable industry info from Inman is Say that again in men. In my
spk_0
best friend George Press, he married Janna Inman. They’re not related
spk_1
in the news. They go internews really
spk_0
good. It’s a great place. You have to pay for it. But it’s a great way to get Realtor inside.
spk_1
Yeah, George CREss, Titan of Caterpillar. And, yes, let’s get him on here. That’s right. Um So what part of your daily routine are you unwilling to give up? Prospecting was the last book you read.
spk_0
I’m currently reading Sacred Marriage by a guy named Gary. And, uh, I have I call it my care sell at all times. I have three books that I keep on on just on tap. And so sacred marriage. Um, and then I’ve got the slide edge and the go giver, the three. I’m trying to knock out
spk_1
what’s happening in the real estate industry 10 years from now. What’s your prediction?
spk_0
I think we’re all gonna die. Yeah, I think that artificial intelligence, if I had to guess, I think artificial intelligence will allow for there to be, uh, likely Mawr, Um, need for a listing specialist, but less need for a buyer. Representative, however, always believe people will still potentially need the buyer agent to just make sure that there’s that extra party vouching for their best interest. So there’s not a dual agency dual agency in a perfect world is perfectly fine, because you would know that the Asia has the best integrity to say I’m creating a win win. I’m not secretly only helping this guy, you know. So in a perfect world, which, quite honestly, is not this world, a dual agency is completely fine every time. And and so, if I had to guess I think in 10 years people will be less likely to pay by our agent commissions but will happily pay realtor, commit our listing commissions, just like every business is happy to have a marketing department or a marketing director or even sales people. I mean, obviously you’re gonna wanna have those people representing you in the same way people are gonna always have people wanting to represent and sell their products. Their house, I think, though having a buyer agent might become less and less potentially might become less unless someone that you reach out to, um it’s just hard to know, because as a luxury experience, I think that that always it will be somewhat consistent with the way it is now. But in the the middle, kind of transactional based, probably see a little bit less, especially from the investors for investors that I really imagine there will be less, uh, buyer agents. Probably just going straight to the I’m buying.
spk_1
Yeah. So what? What about the industry Makes you just cringe? What do you hate? What doesn’t work well in your mind. What? What do you wake up every day and say I wish this didn’t exist in the real estate industry?
spk_0
Oh, man, I’m trying to say names.
spk_1
Eso just people in general, which people didn’t have to be involved so much.
spk_0
I mean, she, um, yeah, I would say it is. It’s a little too common that some agents, egos get in the way of doing a good deal. And, uh, yeah, so So that kind of makes me cringe in the sense that sometimes the realtor I can just get in the way of actually trying to help their clients like they take personal vendettas or, for instance, like they’ll try to negotiate, not having a let the fridge convey, you know, like they’re all about it like, no, that client would never do. And then the client in care take the take the fridge. Like
spk_1
I didn’t want to have to pay to move it anyway. But lose the deal, right? But
spk_0
the realtor will go to bat so aggressively just cause they want to try and and, you know, gosh, you can’t. You can’t hate him for it. Like you always wanna know that you’ve done your absolute best to give the best to your client. But, you know, there’s certain times that it’s just kind of man that was more of your ego than it was your actual desire to sell or served the client.
spk_1
Yeah, Unfortunately, I don’t think any industry is, uh, you know, immune to the ego of certain people, blown up deals and ruining ESPN. For luckily, we
spk_0
have great people in this industry. Our market. LaRock, we Honestly, I can say this genuinely I am so honored and quite honestly feel undeserving to be in the top 10 of Central Arkansas, and I’m just so thankful to be able to say like, But I even do the same thing as Brandy Harp that I get to say I’m also a Realtor like Casey Jones like it is such an honor to say, Yeah, my biggest competitors, er, is Jennifer Atkins like those are people who I love. I mean, And it really wasn’t until probably this about this time last year that I realized there’s plenty of business to go around. I’m gonna keep my secrets. You know? It’s like I can tell. I can tell all the secrets. There’s only a few doers.
spk_1
Yeah, and you and you kind of want to play with them. You wanna have the competitive spirit with him?
spk_0
Yeah, and I want to work. Yeah, and really, it’s been such a blessing. We’ve got Bryce, Remy Ramsey, Sheffield, Ryan, Steve and Stephanie Caldwell. Drew files. Regina Hot. You know, just some incredible teammates that have been a major blessing Teoh our business, not just, you know, as producers, but as integrity’s people that love people. Well, and if I had to be completely honest, I would say they’re better realtors than me. They’re just not better marketers than May. And because of my gifting and marketing, I’m gonna get them business. And that’s gonna be the best way to serve my clients.
spk_1
That’s good. All right. Last question. What about your industry? Makes you excited toe wake up every day. Be better than you were yesterday.
spk_0
Yeah, the people. And
spk_1
so the people is both sides. It is absolutely the
spk_0
best and worst part about real estate, the people, and yeah, thankfully, it’s 99% of the time. It’s the It’s the best people I get to work with. The best people. I mean, that’s I mean, selfishly, I made it very important to myself. Teoh. Just pick the people who just want to hang out with all the time. And they happen to be my teammates. And there now a very successful Realtors.
spk_1
That’s awesome. All right, Chase. Where can people find you if they have questions? If they want to sell their house, where can people get over here?
spk_0
Chase Rackley dot com Rackley team dot com realty bro dot com Whatever facebook dot com slash directly realty. Whatever. Uh, just, you know, call me 501519 48 89
spk_1
cell phones out there. There we go. Let’s go. Well, there you go. The master marketer, The Titan of Real estate Chase Rackley. Thanks so much for your
spk_0
taking it. And thank you, Robin. Excited to be here, Excited to come back to my guaranteed next episode.
spk_1
Let’s go. If you liked this episode of titans of industry, head to content, tightened at CEOs, slash podcast firm or episodes or subscribe on your favorite podcasting app. And if you know oven industry titan, that’s doing amazing things. Let us know on social media or through our website so we can tell their story. Thanks for listening.