00:00

It’s trying to balance the artists narrative, the artists brand, the music narrative that we have. And then marrying that with what that content looks like. There’s not one specific that moves the needle. What works on one platform doesn’t work on another.

00:15

Hey, it’s Nate Disarro and welcome to titans of industry, the podcast where I talk to industry leaders and innovators who are at the top of their game and leading the pack in their fields uncovering some of the best stories in today’s business landscape. In today’s episode, I sit down with Heather Vassar, the Vice President of Marketing for Empire records Nashville. Heather tells us about the importance of storytelling in the lifecycle of an artist how her experience halfway around the world in Bali changed her life, and how her background being a competitive athlete, musician,

00:45

accountant,

00:46

and creative helped her create her dream job. Now, let’s get to the episode. But before we do, our team at content Titan wants you to know that we understand the challenges business leaders and marketers are facing right now, with moving to a more virtual world. We are experts in taking human connections and turning them digital, from virtual Events and Video presentations to promotional content and advertising. We’re here to help guide you through the process of staying in front of your audience and making your life a little bit easier. People tell us all the time that they are lost and don’t know what to say or do and we exist to help your business continue to move forward, virtual. So if you’re ready to take your business and content strategy, virtual, we’re ready to help. Let’s get your business back to business. Now, here’s my conversation with Heather Vassar.

01:42

All right, Heather, I’m so happy that we have the chance to sit and have this conversation. We’ve we’ve known each other for years, but haven’t really connected or talked in years. We’ll leave it at that. since college, we’ll put it that way. But just give me the quick sort of rundown. What are you doing? How did you get here? Give me kind of that that short story of how we’re sitting for me back in starstruck studios. And yeah. And you’re working for Empire records.

02:13

Yeah. Yeah. So I run marketing for Empire. based here in Nashville. I’ve been in Nashville since 2009. But I took a little hiatus and was in Dallas for a couple years in between now and 2009. But yeah, so I running marketing, I came from Universal, where I was in digital marketing there. And then I ran ran strategy at Universal here in Nashville. And yeah, I was looking kind of, for the next step in my career and in my life. And this literally was the the seat buddy on a plane, they kind of started this conversation that that led to to launching a new footprint here for Empire, which is mostly has been a hip hop and rap label. And they, you know, see the country genre is important and wanting to invest. And that’s what we’ve been kicking off for the last almost two years now.

03:08

That’s crazy. So two years of a new kind of existence in Nashville, were labeled it kind of shifted gears when they came here. I mean, you know, still doing what they do, but and of course, like not long after you guys get up and running, the bottom falls out and the world stops and tours can’t happen. So when you think about kind of all the things that you guys have had to shift and pivot and do differently, what was your biggest challenge in 2020, that that really maybe turned into a blessing.

03:38

Man, one, probably the biggest challenge was just cutting through the noise, right? After all of the artists came home, and had never been home for that amount of time to then having all of the artists really with no excuse to not do anything else. Right. So all of the artists that you have typically been on tour that were either, you know, trying to figure out other sources of income, having to you know, lay off tour, support and help and figure out other sources of income and figure out different ways. So the first part of 2020 was interesting, just trying to wrap our heads around. Okay, how long is this going to last? Is this really going to last? As long as they’re saying or, you know, I think for the at least the first couple months, we didn’t really know. And I don’t think anybody did. So, you know, we’re like, okay, we just continue to releasing music. There was a lot of artists in town and then as a whole that stopped. But we can we did not stop. We didn’t stop our release plans. We continued and we thought man, as Empire we are have continued to operate as digital for digital focused. And so that’s what we were like, we’re already in this space. We’re already creating content we already have content created so we just continue to roll with it. So yeah, I think the the biggest challenge especially At the beginning and even now was one cutting through the noise of because then everybody pivoted to live streams. And everybody pivoted to a lot I say everybody, but majority of I think the industry pivoted to doing whatever they could. And so then trying to figure out okay, what then sets us apart? And that? Yeah, absolutely.

05:17

And I love as a content creator content in the name of my company, but the fact that you kept putting out content and didn’t stop, people are sitting at home looking for new things, they’re getting bored. They’re, they’re sort of getting this fatigue from Netflix and everything else. And so I think it was such a great opportunity to just introduce new artists to people and, you know, continue to flood, because people, I mean, if there was a bottom to Instagram, I’m sure they got there, you know. And so it’s like, who have I not seen yet that I can see? And how did you see sort of some of those metrics come to life? And

05:51

it’s funny, I’ve said this quite a bit lately of, you know, I think we’re able to be on the upswing where we can kind of look back at 2020. And go, Okay, what, what did that do for us in a way? How do we excel in that, then also, where did we kind of misstep in some places, but I think what 2020 did for a lot of my artists that are either developing or, you know, kind of breaking, essentially, is that it leveled the playing field a little bit, because it took the ailis artists off the road, it took all of the developing acts at major labels. And as an indie label, you know, that it took them all off the road and said, Okay, now the music speaks, now the content speaks. And so we let that kind of out shine and continue to push. And that helped, you know, we have artists and in places where they are now, but I don’t know that that would have been the case, had, you know, US had to have competed with some of the other developing just in terms of this sheer space that they can operate as, you know, being on a major or something. So, yeah, that was definitely an interesting kind of time, and being able to look back now is like, okay, like, we were able to cut through the noise. And then also introduce, like you said, you know, when, when there was so much fatigue on Netflix, and, you know, we had to find the tiger kings and stuff like that, you know, but to have music out there, and to continue to kind of feed that system was was probably the best thing that we could do in that time. That’s really cool.

07:18

Have you seen a shift in artists like mindset? Because I think a lot of people get into an industry thinking it’s going to be one way. And of course, you guys are figuring it out as much as anybody else. But have, since you’re dealing with a lot of new artists, have you seen him have kind of a creative mindset to kind of figure things out with you? Or are they more resistant to things, say, I just want to sit back and wait till I can get on the road or whatever,

07:40

you know, it’s funny, every artist is completely different. I mean, they’re just creative beings, you know, so they’re as different as you and I, as, as anybody else that would walk into a room. And so you have to take every artist and every team completely different. So we did we had some artists that were struggling off the road, they’d never been off the road. And so figuring out okay, what can we fill in this space? With? What can we fill in the gap with? Where are you because you do get to take care of the artist mentally, especially because it does it when they come off tour, like it messes with them when they’re so used to that routine, and then they’re sitting at home. And it’s like, so you have that pendulum swing all the way then to those that wrote, and they were they had home studios, so then they were just making music and just diving into that. And then you had artists that were completely dove into the Tiktok space and socials on live and really diving into that. So every artist and every approach is completely different. I don’t think you can really cookie cutter it, you know, especially with how diverse our roster is much less all have empires that I think it would be a disservice to cookie cutter it for an artist you really have to take and go Okay, what are where, where are easy wins during this time, because nobody knows how to survive a pandemic? And how to get through that. And so what are what are easy wins that we can easily grab and then what are we okay to, to kind of allow them to be humans through this? You know,

09:08

I love that. And I would assume half your job is really kind of a producer for them. Like, what content are you making today? How are you kind of putting your own self your own brand out there? Because, you know, musicians, artists, they’re their content creators, and they do that for a living to sell their music, but to market them. That’s a whole different type of content. I mean, yes. fun for you. Do you enjoy the kind of giving them a list of things to do every day to keep marketing themselves?

09:37

Yeah, yes and no, there’s some of it. I wasn’t used to some of the day to day grunt work that comes with that. But I mean, I put together so many content strategy plans and decks and oh my gosh, how much of that is enjoyable for you kind of being their sort of producer and a Central Executive Producer, as well as helping market everything else they’re doing? Yeah. I love that. So Have it the content side, I hadn’t haven’t always trusted my eye on it, I’ve learned to trust it, I’ve learned to trust, what’s quality, what is great to put out what can move the needle, what doesn’t, what not to waste the time on and what you know, that looks cool pushes, you know, pushes things forward. And so I love that side of it, I love the being able to create great, great content, helping an artists kind of get in that groove and get in that rhythm, and then they get excited. So that’s, that’s the fun part, you know, you also have to balance that with, again, like I said, like, they’re creatives and human beings. And so you have to balance that. So there’s so you know, with some artists, you have to be very, kind of direct in the content strategy and plan and help them lay that out. And then some, you’re able to kind of free flow that and let that kind of just happen naturally. But yeah, I mean, I feel like I’ve said this a million times, like every artist is different. So that the plan, there’s really not a one plan that we stick to, but I love the creative side, it allows me to be creative, how I can’t, you know, however I can be, and, and let that kind of that side of me flourish alongside then the marketing side of the very analytical side to make sure that it’s properly pitched and placed and things like that. So.

11:18

So you mentioned you’re constantly trying to kind of figure out and help them identify what works, what moves the needle, what doesn’t. And of course, my first question was, well, what moves the needle? Is, are there trends that you’re seeing in the content world, especially with artists content, that, that really make an impact? And you can kind of boil that down to direct downloads or, you know, more views or things like that?

11:41

Yeah, I mean, it’s funny, when I first got in the music business, like, video streams didn’t count towards the chart, right? And so that it wasn’t as much of a factor. Now videos always been a great component and a great asset to have. But then, as I’ve been in the industry, now they do so then they matter. So then create compelling content is even more important. And then as the digital space has just grown, more platforms, you know, tick tock wasn’t around when I first started, that was, you know, it was musically and trying to figure that out, and then moving, moving to other platforms. So it’s, it’s trying to balance the artists narrative, the artists brand, the music narrative that we have, and then marrying that with what that content looks like, across all different platforms. So it really is that there’s not one specific that moves the needle, I think you have to be very cognizant of what works on that platform, because what works on one platform doesn’t work on another. And so you have to, there’s a, you know, a lot of artists are starting out, even outside of the music industry, they throw the exact same thing across all platforms, and you’re gonna see a difference in engagement is a difference in how the platform promotes it, how that hits the algorithm. So, yeah, there’s so many components to it that of course, there’s no magic formula. I mean, I wish there was, I wish I’ve discovered the magic formula, as I’m sure you do, as well. Yeah,

13:05

we all wish we could discover that magic formula. But But there is a formula. And I think that’s the important thing is, you’ve got to kind of identify that for yourself. You know, it’s almost like, if you’re making your own recipe in the kitchen, you can use somebody else’s, and hope that it turns out the way there’s turned out, but really, you can kind of take some liberties and make it your own. And I think you have to find out what works for you what what tastes you like when it comes to food? And then for artists, what actually resonates with their viewership?

13:31

Absolutely. I think I preach to my artists in teams all the time is authenticity, Authenticity, I can throw out as many incredible ideas as as I can. But if it doesn’t, then feel authentic to the artists, it will never work. And it won’t work the fans can see right through it. They’re smart, they can see right through it. And so it’s only when that great idea hits on the authenticity of the artist, that that is probably more of where the magic is, rather than any type of rollout strategy or plan, majority of the time I sit behind the camera, I sit behind them, you know, on the the sound booth or you know, away from the mic, and they they’re the ones that have to sell it in whatever capacity that is, whether it’s a live show, whether it’s you know, any type of content, any type of branding, and so that has to feel and resonate with them, because when it works, it really works. And then they have to own that the rest of their lives. Not me.

14:28

That’s absolutely true. Yeah, I mean, I preach to people all the time about this idea of human to human interaction, right? So when we’re creating content, sure, there’s ways you can push out digital content and a lot of ways that it’s just graphic based, or whatever. And there’s certainly elements to that. That’s very informational and worthwhile. But if you really want to move the needle and get somebody connected to your brand, or to, in this case, your music, that humans human connection, because we throw out the word authenticity all the time as well. But I think what it boils down to, like what is often tissue will just be a human to another human. I mean, like, how would you connect with this person in real life? And don’t try and be something you’re not? Unless you’re a Broadway performer, then of course, by all means be a great Broadway performer or something, but, but for an artist for a brand for whoever it is, how are you connecting with this person on a human level? And I think if you can sort of boil it down into that simple mindset, then generally speaking, it’s going to be a winning strategy.

15:27

Yeah, I mean, that that builds careers, because then those fans stay with that artist Forever,

15:34

forever. And I’ve said it for a long time. I think Garth Brooks, in my mind is one of the best entertainers in the world. And clearly his numbers don’t lie. But I don’t think he’s the best musician. I don’t think he’s the best singer I don’t think he’s about but he just feels so human. Yeah, you know, and, and he’s a showman, just like a lot of people, but his presence, just what makes me want to be there, you know. And I remember in the 90s, going to a Garth Brooks concert, just thinking this was the greatest thing ever, because he just came alive. And he’s just so much fun to be around. But I still felt like I could just walk up to him right now. And he’d be kind of the same type of person.

16:12

Totally, totally. And that’s, that’s also a difference. I mean, there’s a difference of a superstar and entertainer, and an artist, and then a songwriter, there’s so many different levels, and kind of caveats to it. And yeah, Garth is absolutely on the entertainer side. But he wouldn’t have the career he did, if even at the very beginnings of it, it wasn’t authentic, you know, and so you can’t build on something that isn’t real. And sustained. So to be able to have a career, you know, and I think that’s where so many developing artists and artists trying to find their voice and what is that, and it’s so important, and I spend so much time just on the branding side of that just on that side of it, because they have to know and start to understand who they are, because then that will help them solidify their career, and fans will stick with them, or they will leave, you know, and that’s probably one of the biggest challenges with how DSPs are, you know, have come to the table and are involved because you get on a playlist and you get off the playlist. And there’s not a lot of people that will kind of dive into that. And to figure out who that is, it just really has to catch a fan for that to be the case, you know, so helping establish those pillars, outside of the artists with their music is just as important as their music is.

17:35

So break it down for me a little bit. Because I think a lot of people right now used to if a record went platinum, we knew what that meant that many actual albums were purchased. Yeah. So break down the music business a little bit for me right now, how if, let’s say I just released my first album, have zero listens or buys? How would I know? Like what’s measured what success for an artist these days, oh,

18:02

that’s two completely different measured and success is completely. It’s funny, I, I tell my artists all the time you like the numbers to to look at the numbers is is great. But to live and die by them is not. And so, you know, they get in this in this business, because it is a business right? I wouldn’t have a job if it wasn’t a business. But they have a craft and they are working to not just perfect that craft but but to to create the music that is essentially they will sing the rest of their life. So that’s kind of number one, I would say success. If they’re doing that, to be able to do that. Well, then I think that successful the the listeners, the viewership all that can come and go. But if they’re doing that, then that will help them for the rest of their life. Now, just on a numbers level, a basic, you know, numbers, music business level. Yeah. So I mean, used to if you bought a song, or if you bought an actual CD or a vinyl, like, that’s a unit right for an album or so with DSPs. Billboard, Nielsen, they have formulas in place that it’s like, Okay, if you have X percent of streams that are ad supported and X percent of streams that are, you know, paid in premium and all of that, then that generates one unit. So it’s still based off the units. They’re just now it’s a different way that to get there. And it’s all formulated based. And I touched on that a little bit of like, videos weren’t a part of the chart, but now they are but they’re still based off of premium views, versus ad supported views versus you know, an ad it’s, yeah, well, and it’s and it’s continuing to evolve as, as are all the DSPs like all the streaming platforms as they continue to evolve. So does the music business to to try and maintain that and to figure out okay, what is what is that balance of life How do we measure a unit anymore?

20:02

How does that change your day to day world? Because I would assume there’s always new platforms coming out always new places to release videos, music, everything. So are you the one that has to kind of pay attention to all those things until your artists were to be? Or is that a mutual job? Or does their management team do that? Like,

20:22

yeah, it’s it’s mutual. I mean, definitely, I always try and keep my ears to the ground, right? I mean, take a ton of meetings to vet companies to see, okay, Is this legit? I mean, I, my inboxes, flooded of, hey, would love to show you this, you know, and sometimes management will bring some of them to the table. And I’m like, I’ve never heard of this, like, you know, should we try this? I don’t know, a, because there’s also a lot of companies out there that are trying to game the system, right. So then they have a lot of watch streams, which are paid streams, which aren’t legit, which just throw everything off that mess up on the royalty side and the payment. So there is a lot of that, that you have to kind of funnel and there’s ways to kind of sort through that, right, that you can tell like, okay, 95% of my streams have come from a desktop and you’re like, well, that’s probably not the case. So so there’s a lot of tricks in that way of just kind of monitoring that I have the benefit of having a great team just being in those conversations of of the new either up and coming platforms or, or even kind of what’s coming, what’s not, you know, we take meetings all of the time of, Okay, here’s the new, here’s the new community, here’s the new you know, clubhouse like, and whatever that is, and then trying to figure out, Okay, what artists? Is this worth it for? What is it not? Who can engage in this one? Does it make sense. So in kind of determining where an artist fits in, and that, that usually kind of tends to sort itself out along the way as we continue to build off the music and the marketing plan and the rollout strategy?

21:53

Very cool. Alright, so I want to dig into Heather raster per second. Okay, and talk a little bit about just sort of, you know, there’s a lot that goes with, sort of being in charge of people’s careers, in a sense. I mean, you’re not the artist manager, and we got an episode with Dan wise, who come to find out as a good friend of yours, but and we love Dan, he’s such a great, great person in the business, but but you’ve got a manager that sort of, is sort of responsible for helping the artists themselves make some of those decisions. Yeah. And then you’ve got your organization and team that helps get the music out there, get it seen, get it heard, get it bought, tell me what your day sort of looks like? And then do you have any sort of frameworks that you like to live within whether it’s from a marketing standpoint, I’m a big fan these days of Donald Miller and the story brand framework, and I kind of look at how I help my clients tell stories using that kind of idea. Yeah. But is there anything that you employ that you’ve kind of fallen in love with? Or have that you’re constantly kind of looking at how to do your job better?

23:01

Yeah, I mean, one, I learned a lot when I was at Universal, and so being able to take the pros to that and build off that to create a new framework. And so to then combine what I learned there, and then what I’ve learned from everyone at Empire, and the great team that I have there, it kind of marry both of those, but then also continue to kind of push, I think it’s mostly my personality, that I am always wanting to kind of push against the norm, push against kind of the standard of, well, this is just the way we’ve always done it. Well, for me, that’s not good enough, red done, it doesn’t matter, we could be at the top of the world. And I’m like, I bet we could have done something different. You know, I bet we could have, or I can see like, Man, I wish we would have done this, and it would have been that much better. I think that’s just sheer personality, and just how I was made and wired. And so But yeah, I mean, I love Donald, I love the whole story brand approach. I don’t know that I follow it exactly, to a tee. But they’re definitely, you know, my day to day is not only managing the artists like all of the rollout plans for my roster. But then at the same time, it’s managing all of the relationships with the streaming partners, to make sure that hey, they know what’s coming and when and how they can get involved and what we really want them to lean in, lean on and make that story and narrative makes sense to them and, and how we can kind of get them to buy into it. But then at the same time also on the content side of like, okay, here’s the release strategy, here’s what we need. And so it’s I work with some of the best artists managers, which I love. And so that helps. It’s great to have, you need that to be honest. Especially in this world. You have to have a great team, just around an artist not only great music, you know, and it’s funny, I work with Franco Adele, and love him probably, you know, respect him so much in this in this industry. He’s been around, you know, for such a long time, and has established such a great trajectory for his company. And he, at the end of the day, he says, I just want to work with great people and make great music. And for me, that was it, that was exactly it, I was like that is exactly that. I’ll show up and do my very best, they’ll show up and do their very best with great music, and do the best we can to move the needle, make it, you know, roll it out, and then learn learn from that. So I’m all about adapting. Because I feel like when at my time at Universal, we did, I didn’t get to adapt. You know, I didn’t know if what we did worked. Because we had such big artists. And I was like, Well, of course it works. But does it work as best as it could. And so here, it’s very polarizing, with developing artists, and then, you know, even breaking artists of it’s like, okay, you know, when something works and when it doesn’t, but I have the ability and the agility to pivot on a dime, and go, Okay, well, that didn’t work. So let’s do something else. And quick, right. And so that’s, that’s been very refreshing in this to go, okay, we can content fly so fast in this world, and you know, that, you know, so what you release is, it’s really coming on, you know, so it’s like, okay, I tell my artists all the time, like, you make a post, maybe 10% of your audience sees that one post. So like, you probably can’t promote your music too much. If you’re worried about making two posts, after it’s out, like, I promise you like just with how the algorithms work everything. So it’s definitely kind of, you know, balancing that as we’re rolling out and preparing but I don’t know, I don’t think I answered know what my day to day looks like.

26:42

But that was great, though. And one things you said I loved ability and agility. The interesting thing there, one of the people I’ve had the chance to interview for sort of a lifetime award that they were getting recognition. They’re a multi billionaire, huge fortune 100 business, I believe. And I asked him point blank at the end of the interview, because this was selfish of me, I kind of get this free MBA from having this these kinds of questions, but I’ll prepare myself for whatever that the last question is. But I said, What’s the one thing that you feel like has helped make your organization successful over these many years, decades? And he said, when we have an idea, we quickly put that idea into action. If it works, we double down on that idea. If it doesn’t work, we kill it so fast and move on. Yeah, no idea is is too good to kill if it’s not working. Yeah. And he said, I’ve seen plenty of companies out there that they have an idea. They think it’s the best idea. They move forward with it, it’s not working, they tweak it and don’t tweak it enough or don’t invest enough in that idea. And then it just ends up slowing them down instead of helping them accelerate move faster. And absolutely, there’s so many brilliant people in the world that have so many great ideas, that if one’s not working, move on.

28:02

Yeah, I feel like that you probably interviewed my CEO, because that’s kind of what he lives in breeds for sure. When I first started with Empire, you know, I was waiting for approvals, right? Like waiting for approvals was like, Hey, can we do this and, and whatnot, you know, I was still trying to get my feet wet. And finally, Mott, the CEO called me and was like, Heather, could just go run, because that’s what, that’s what we want. We trust you enough to give you the freedom to run, we will pull back the reins. If we see something, you know, and they have like, they’ve, you know, they’ll call me and they’ll say, Hey, why don’t we do it this way? Like, kind of talk me through this, and then figure out okay, maybe that didn’t work. let’s let’s let’s maybe try it this way or not, and like a reprimand way, because it’s always like, okay, you know, we trust you, we give you the liberty to run. And so that’s really that was kind of my momentum shift when I when I started an empire because I was like, Okay, let’s run. And and exactly like you said, If something’s not working, it’s out. It’s out. And maybe we resurface that later for another artist that it does work on and it kills it. And there’s no sense in wasting time or energy, especially with as much as everyone has it going on, on something that isn’t working, or is just working kind of average Li like, No,

29:23

we want to be better, we want to be the best and make a difference. And that’s one of the things I kind of preach to my team. And a lot of people I get to talk to is basically you’ve got to have ownership, because if you don’t take ownership over this idea of this thing, then who’s gonna run fast with it, you know, it’s it’s not my job, it’s their job, but I’m just kind of helping you own this and run fast. I love that you’re, you know, organization kind of looks at it that way and says, Heather, you can do this, we trust you own it and go and execute on it. One of the other things I like to really Kind of pay attention to with people is sort of personality types. Yeah, I’ve learned a lot about it over the last few years, you know, always kind of been interested in it, but not really doubled down on it. And so as you meet people, as you talk to people interact with them in various ways. And even as you see how they interact online, right, with engaging with content, things like that, understanding different types of personalities, can much better help you create that human human connection. Is that something you’re into at all? Do you pay attention to personalities? What’s your,

30:29

my, my personality is that I think I’ve taken every personality test out there to understand I, and this is on, like you said, a human level, like, not even just work, co workers, but all the way then to family, friends. You know, I think it’s so important, because everyone is so different. And so how do we better? How do we love people better? How do we understand people better? I, it’s just, it’s so intriguing to me. I, you know, so I’ve taken every personality test, you know, I know, I’m ESTJ I’m an enneagram. Three, I’m Capricorn like, I’ve literally any test possible. I know. And so, probably to your listeners, like they heard that and they’re like, Oh, dear Lord, like, we don’t even know what to do with her. So I, but I also know, it helps me know myself better now. Okay, here are kind of when I’m in a good space. Here’s the great things about it, when I’m not in a good space here, and the not so great things about it.

31:29

Yeah. And I think that understanding that awareness of it is part of the key to it all is not only how do I interact with other people better, but how do I know myself? So that if I see this trend happening, yes, I know that that’s kind of to be expected. And here’s hopefully how I can kind of either get out of it, if it’s in a bad place, or keep it going if it’s in a good place.

31:46

Yeah, I also use it as I think one it’s not used enough in corporate culture. But I, I use it because I think it’s such a great tool for empathy, right? Like, that’s kind of your empathy trigger of, like, if you can understand someone better on their human core level, then you can understand where they’re coming from, even if you disagree. And so I think that, you know, that has been something in the last two years that I’ve really tried to dive into and figure out one for myself, but then to figure it out for all my relationships, whether it’s co workers, or friends or family, and go, Okay, how do I do this better? But if it’s not going so great, how do I not want to get personal because as a three, I’m probably going to take it, especially on a work level, I’m absolutely going to take it personal. And so it’s like, okay, I don’t want not take this personal and keep it work and understand where they’re coming from. So it doesn’t hinder or do more harm than it’s already doing. Absolutely.

32:50

And when you think about it from because I like what you mentioned that a lot of corporations aren’t doing this very well, I think more are getting into it. And it’s great to see the shift that’s happening. But when we market to our audience, what we’re doing is trying to create that human human authenticity, trying to create a perception and ultimately a persuasion. Yeah, for human behavior to to do what I want it to do, right? I mean, it almost sounds manipulative. But really, if we’re a good noble company, and we’re doing the right thing, that’s a good thing. We want them to participate in our business, whatever it is, whether it’s listening to music, buying a product, going on a trip somewhere and spending money on an airline, whatever. But we do that as a organization to our customers, why wouldn’t we do the exact same thing to our people that run the company or make the company work? And so I wish every organization in the world really would sort of stop what they’re doing, understand their people, because there people are who are influencing their customers,

33:58

we have probably one of the most diverse company cultures, and, like over 50%, female, and then all all human races, right? And my co CIO, Ghazi says he does that on purpose. He’s very intentional about it. Because he’s a firm believer, how do you know how to market to someone if that someone is not sitting in that room helping on the marketing side? You know, so it’s like, how do I with especially in Nashville, the country audience, right? majority is female. I mean, that’s your core country audience. And so that was one of the conversations that him and I had, he was like, I need I want and have to have a female in this spot that has a voice in that spot, because that’s that audience. If I had five men as a part of the Empire national team, how do I know that it’s all going to work succinctly if the audience is not represented in that. So I think that is where Probably a lot of companies that I’ve seen, and even on the, you know, music companies don’t invest a lot of thought into that. No different than like hiring young, young talent is really important, because they’re kind of the ears to the what’s up and coming. You know, I wish I was still young and would even know, you know, like my product manager, he’ll bring me stuff. And I’m like, this is like, and then you feel old. But it’s, it’s so great to have that kind of diversity with that, because it’s like, I need that, I need that push on that, because I’m not in that world at all. I’m in this one. And so so to have that diversity is is so important on a marketing level. Because how do you know who you’re talking to if there’s nobody represented in the room? Very true.

35:47

And I think we have seen a great shift in that lately. The world is catching on. And we’re starting to realize that the people at the table should represent the people in the world not make decisions for right people in the world. And that’s it. So what’s something that you maybe have learned along the way that you kind of wish you knew when you first got into this business or earlier in your, in your career, that you wake up every day thinking, gosh, this is so easy now, but back 10 years ago? I had no idea because

36:23

I i wish i and this probably just comes with age, I don’t even know if it’s even an answer to your question. I wish I’d trusted my gut from the get go. I just think early on, you just don’t know, you don’t know, you know, if you hear a song in there, like that’s a hit. But you don’t say that? Because you’re like, what is it though? Is that what all of the the executives in the room are thinking so early on? I wish I hadn’t really just listened to that honestly. And just and that’s kind of twofold to if they don’t think it is, but I still think it is then it still could be like I might be right in that situation. So I think that’s probably the one thing and not even just trust my gut on a hit but trust my eye creatively as well. And going, Okay, I know, I know when content is great. And I give my team the hardest time because they know I’m going to push back, if I get something they know now to not send me something that they haven’t already reviewed a million times, because I will probably still have edits. But I didn’t know that at the beginning. I didn’t know that. I had a great marketing. I didn’t know that that the edits that I was making, or the thoughts that I was having, that I could fully trust. And so I think I wish now that you know that I had done that, and probably could have moved the needle a little bit earlier and quicker and change some of the things but you know, hindsight is always 2020.

37:50

So, I just happen to know this about you, because I’ve known you since like we said years ago. You have been a competitive athlete. Yep. You’ve been a musician yourself. You’ve helped start and run a firm yet. And now you’re vice president marketing for record label. Yep. That’s a lot of different skill sets, and talents that are all kind of wrapped up into one one person. Have you seen a crossover of how your expertise in one side kind of comes to play in the other? For sure.

38:29

One just being competitive. You know, this industry is so competitive, this industry is so cutthroat. So having the competitiveness of being an athlete, and I still play, so I still get that little fix, it’s definitely not as intense because, you know, I need to live and survive. And I’ll probably hurt myself but and so I have to be careful on that front. But also, I think the team mentality learning how to be on a team from from the get go and that kind of transpires across all of the of the positions I’ve been in. And then even, you know, even on a very basic level of when I was running the accounting firm, a Dallas, like, one, I was like, this is fine. And all it’s what my family does, you know, every education benchmark test I’ve taken was like your scores and 99% accounting, and I’m like, that’s not where I’m going to be. And so my family is fine with that, just as on the record, so we’re on the record saying, but starting on the on the music side, and then going to the accounting side, taught me that I have both sides of that brain. And like, you know, like you had already touched on I’m not the best musician. I wasn’t the best artist, but it allowed me to now be empathetic towards my artists now. I understand how difficult that is. I understand how difficult the road is, which now they’re all pining for it so you know, it’s that’s that’s the good But then switching to the to the accounting side I wouldn’t have gotten the job for running strategy at Universal had I not had that background had I not known one the basics of how to use Excel really well and really fast. But then to just being having that analytical side to understand this is what’s working this is what’s not this is what’s happening not just in country but as across all genres. Country tends to operate behind the curve. And so if I’m watching the other genres, I can see where we’re heading to. And so it’s like okay, being pre emptive of that and not reactive to that is has been really helpful. So yeah, I mean, I would say there’s so many qualities learning how to operate as a team you know, it’s all threaded throughout is has definitely been great kind of stepping stones to where I am now.

40:57

Who would you say are some of your mentors or people that have inspired you along the way kind of given you that that you know, paved road to walk down if there is such a thing but I like to say who are your Titans who

41:10

Yeah, your life, I love that. I love that well, one I am probably the most like avid peloton owner, so I got in early before peloton was cool. And so there’s a couple instructors have their Robin, you know taught me kind of female empowerment and that’s okay. And that that your voice in the room matters. And so her over there, but then so completely different industry and and then all the way to you know, Renee Brown, who I’m a massive fan of all of her books and taught me so much just reading I’m listening to her stuff. And then in the industry, like Mike Duncan, who runs universal here in Nashville has really helped me and, and encouraged me along the way is such a great mentor to have Frank a brought up, you know, you know, just these, the people that have been in this town and then on the music side, have been around for such a long time that they’ve kind of seen every pendulum swing that happens. And knowing that one, they’re still around, and they’re still making great music, and then to kind of how to ignore some of the politics that are involved. And and kind of how to not bypass them, but not let them probably affect me more than they would I’m probably I would probably be highly more affected by some of the the politics that it requires, then had they not taught me along the way of kind of really what matters and kind of not even verbally, but just kind of how they’ve presented themselves. But yeah, so I think it kind of runs runs the gamut a little bit on on, on those,

42:54

one of the things that I find most interesting with, you know, kind of thinking through my relationship with with mentors and people that have influenced me is you learn probably more by them telling you what not to do than what to do. You know, I think we’re always looking for this step by step guide of how should I move through the situation? And oftentimes, they can’t give you that, but they can tell you what not to do. Yeah, and I think nine times out of 10 that’s the most valuable information.

43:19

Absolutely. I always say you, if you can know what not to do, that you will be successful. You know, and even even Tina, who is heads up empires, ANR, who’s, you know, she’s been around for such a long time. And like, I mean, just talk about boots on the ground has has been a part of the industry when it wasn’t fun to be a part of, but then has been a part of like incredible projects, incredible artists, and to watch that, and to and to know that, okay, I can trust her I can trust, you know, in her ears, for sure. And so just having that to be able to kind of lean on, and to hear that kind of feedback, exactly. Like you said, like, you know, because I think mentors, you need them in your current, but then also in other kind of pillars of your life, that that can kind of speak into that as well. And exactly what you said, you know, if they’re teaching you what not to do, then that’s, that’s just as important and valuable.

44:18

So every business, there’s kind of three things that boil down to kind of how a business exists in the world. And the first of those is ideas. The second is the execution of their ideas are operations and the third is their culture. If you have to rank those one through three, one being this has to be the most important thing that you focus on. What do you put at the top of the list? The first

44:42

one is easy for me all day long. I didn’t even hesitate it like as soon as you said it. Culture absolutely is most important. If you have a toxic culture, then ideas and execution are are mute. So culture for me, that’s something that empowers It does really, really well, which is really refreshing, because it’s not always done well. And so that’s been great to, to kind of be a part of that family. And so they take a lot of pride in that as as to why and so I think culture, absolutely. Because any type of negative negativity on that level is just going to kill the ideas, it will kill the execution. So that’s one, but two and three, I don’t know that I can put in an order,

45:28

you have to. Well, and this is this is an interesting conversation topic. Because if cultures number one, yep. To preserve that culture, you’re going to have idea people and you’re going to have execution people. Yeah. And they can’t always exist mutually right? So you’ve either got to have idea people, that then your operations people take and execute those ideas, or you’ve got to have your what’s possible your operations people say, here’s the framework we live in. Now, we need ideas that work within this framework.

46:00

Yeah, I don’t know that I can put one above the other though. I, I think if they’re able to operate mutually, that’s the win, right? Because it you can have a million great ideas, but nothing there to execute, then what’s the point? You can have great execution, but really terrible ideas? So then also, what’s the point? So I those feel to me, like those cultures, one, and then two, is ideas and execution? I just, I hear I hear you. I don’t know that I can pick, I think you have to have both. And if you don’t, you have to get to a place where you do. And whether that’s different people, whether that is a different structure, you have to get to that place where it is that kind of yin and yang, because if it’s just mediocre ideas that you’re executing on, you will continue to stay mediocre.

46:51

So I’ll accept that answer. I appreciate it. I wasn’t I’m no, it’s great. It’s It’s a unique standpoint on it, for sure. And I think that

46:59

Oh, no. Am I the only one that has that standpoint? Well, I can’t tell you that. No, I think everyone has to go listen to the rest of the podcast to determine

47:06

but i think it’s it’s the mentality that goes into it that says like, the value is there regardless, like they’re both equal? And I think that that’s a great way to look at it. And, you know, is

47:20

it me if I wasn’t pushing against the one, two and three anyway? Exactly.

47:26

totally understood. Moving on, I’ll lose this battle for sure. I’m not willing to choose. I don’t I don’t even know that I could, you know,

47:37

like, Oh, that’s great. I love that. And the fact that you, you have that mindset, you know, means and we’ve talked about this a little bit earlier, too, I think off off camera, or before we’re recording, but you know, kind of how you and I share this, this mindset that, you know, we kind of are the business and creative minds, we may not be the absolute best at either one. But we have to live in a world where we have both of those in our lives, and that we have jobs we have, you know, companies that we work for, or run that, that allow us to exist in both worlds. And so I think that’s a very fair existence of your kind of, you can’t have ideas and execution Yeah, one rank over the other, just like I believe you can’t have business and creative sort of out of sync, they have to both kind of come to the table with equal weight.

48:28

Yeah, yeah. I think if there’s a culture or a company that is heavy handed on one or the other, something’s going to suffer. And so finding that balance, right, which is, that’s kind of the golden ticket, right? That I don’t know, that anybody ever achieves or gets to in a company, but you have to at least work at finding that balance. Love it. Alright, so

48:53

a couple years ago, you got to spend some time in Bali, right? Yes. I want to hear about this experience, and kind of what was your What was your takeaway? Why did you go? And then how did that impact and essentially, you know, make you who you are today?

49:08

Yeah, so Bali was probably one of the most life changing experiences, I had one never been that far. And by that far, I mean, it’s almost exactly halfway around the world from Nashville. And Had I known that I would have taken a different flight path. But I would have still gone but I was taking a different flight path back because I was literally on the plane with the people that I was that I was going with. And I was watching the map on the on the flight and I was like wait a second, because you know, I’m on the plane. It gives you kind of here’s your flight overview. And we It was a 17 hour flight and to Singapore was was our second flight we had flown from Nashville to to San Francisco actually. And I was like, we messed up. We messed up. We’re flying literally halfway around and We’re not coming back. We’re not continuing that to say we flew around the world. We’re literally coming back where we came from. And I was like, missed opportunity. So hear me say now that that is the plan the next time I go, but

50:13

so for anybody listening if you’re going from America to

50:17

it well, especially in Nashville Nashville, almost exactly. Okay. Yeah. So you can you can either fly out of obviously, you know, Philadelphia or New York and in that way or you can fly out of California. So yeah, if you live in like, Middle Tennessee or equal so BNA, if you’re going to leave from if you’re leaving from BNA, take one way out of JFK, or wherever on the east, and then come back on the west, and you’ll have literally flown around the world. So very cool.

50:49

Yes. So we learned about a missed opportunity. Yes, I guess, not to start out in my life changing. Right? Yeah. So that was that was the takeaway, right? Yeah.

50:59

Yeah, that’s it. That’s a no. So Bali came about. So I knew the instructor that was teaching a yoga retreat, I’d never done yoga consistently, I’d done maybe a couple classes with my sister, I didn’t get it, I couldn’t touch my toes. And I was like, I, you know, this is crazy. But she had studied there, the instructor did had studied there, she lives there month out of every year, and was like, You guys just need to come. And I was like, let’s do it. You know, like, and that’s kind of just my personality is what I love to travel, I love to travel internationally, I’d love to see as many cultures and people and eat the food and just experience that is so important to me. And one I just kind of thrive in that I love that, that level of adventure I you know, I love seeing new places. And so it was kind of a no brainer. For me. And especially those a comfort level just because she had been the instructor had been for so long, so but I didn’t know that I would have to travel all the way around the world to find a piece of me that I didn’t know I needed. Because I landed in Bali, and it’s easily the most spiritual place I’ve ever I’ve ever been to the people are kind. But taking that trip, and learning kind of introspectively about myself, we had a whole day of silence. So the entire 24 hours of no communication. So no reading a book. I mean, we could we could journal so we could write. But if no reading a book, no talking. And that slows things down in a way that not everyone and very few actually get to experience and doing that slowing the world down. Because that’s at the time of my life. That’s what I needed. I was still universal at the time, I was trying to figure out kind of my next steps. I wasn’t in a healthy place for myself. And so trying to figure out what that look like, you know, like you leave your 20s and you get to this weird space of like, I should have this figured out, but I don’t. And so it I joke now because I’m like it took me flying halfway around the world to to find that. But that’s just how stubborn I am. And so I don’t think it requires that for most people. But yeah, I think Bali, if anything, it’s slowed, it’s slowed things down for me that I could take a look at myself and go is this who I want to be Is this the person that I want to become is the path that I’m on who and how I want to leave the world and represent that. And so it’s such a monumental moment to not only be immersed in that culture, and just the the way they operate, how kind and gracious and just out of the sheer goodness of their heart, you know, to see that it’s so different than anything in the States. And, and so to, to learn from that and also kind of let things go that I no longer needed. Right? And to kind of work through that and start that was kind of the one of the starting processes. So there was a lot of undoing right of, of kind of, hey, I’ve always operated this way, but that’s probably not the healthiest. There’s a lot of kind of introspection in there that allowed me to kind of free up myself to be okay with that and go Okay, like I mean, I wasn’t necessarily confident or and Okay, in my own skin, which I think a lot of people go through probably majority of people just nobody really talks about it. And so I didn’t know I didn’t know that that was even okay to kind of not one not be comfortable in my skin but then to to experience it on such a deeper spiritual level. There was like, okay, like, Okay. And so yeah, I will forever cherish that and we did awesome thing. You know, like, of course, I mean, we’re in Bali. So we go through the rice fields and, you know, just even learning that and we did. There’s a place called pyramids of ci so if you guys ever go to Bali, you have to do that. It’s sound healing. And so from the music side, from even the musician side, they use sound and sounds to kind of heal you, which sounds very hoovy groovy. And that was not me at all. So just hear me say that. But I think if anything, it just, it one allows you to be into it slows you down. And it’s like, okay, figuring out what our priorities, what matters. And then how do you keep doing that? Here operating? You know,

55:31

that’s really cool. I just booked my trip. So yeah, I’m going out east to get there and then coming back West. That’s right. Yeah. If you do that before me, though. That’s really cool. And I think that there’s so much to be said, for that idea of finding a way to slow down, and you can’t say, I’m just gonna take a weekend and do it, you know, I think that I’m in I’m in desperate need of that myself. I’m constantly on the go 1000 things pointing at you. But I like the idea of not even reading a book. Because, you know, when you’re ingesting something, it kind of makes your mind race, but when you’re putting it out, it sort of slows you down. So journaling and just sort of sitting within the breath.

56:18

I was I was sitting outside my room at one point, because at the time, we didn’t schedule at the retreat that I was at, which was actually the same retreat that Elizabeth Gilbert went to where she wrote, Eat, Pray, Love. And so that was fun, and really cool to kind of be a part of and kind of see that I actually watched the movie for the first time while I was packing the night before for the trip, cuz I was like, I feel like I should know this. Or at least know what I’m kind of walking into. And yeah, so that afternoon, I was just sitting outside and one it’s just blazing hot. They’re like, it’s heat, like I’ve never felt and I’m from Texas, and live in the south, you know, so I know, humidity, but I did not know humidity. And I’m sitting on and I’m just like sketching, and I don’t know how to sketch, you know, like, I literally had a pen and a white piece of paper. And that’s what they gave us. And they were like, do whatever you want with it, you know. And they didn’t even say that it was just kind of like they supplied it in your room. And so I sat outside, and I literally just sketched everything that I saw, you know, and at one point, I thought, am I going crazy, because I’m like, there was a nap kind of flying around. And and I was having an internal conversation with that gnat. And I was like, how are you not burning up, but it’s like roasting out here. And then of course, I go down the path in my brain of like, man, Mother Nature’s really amazing. Like, you’re the tiniest thing, but you don’t just crisp up like that, even though I feel like I’m crisping up out here. So, you know, just things like that, that in this world, how we operate here. You don’t do that. And so yeah, there was a little bit of like, I think I’m going crazy. And I only did it like 24 hours. Like there are some people that do weeks and days and days. And I’m like, who knows how would return after that. You know, crazy.

58:01

So did the movie do it justice?

58:05

Oh, not even close. Not even close. It’s great. I mean, don’t get me wrong. It’s great. I love Julia Roberts. It’s It’s fantastic. No, there’s really nothing that can do it justice, you know, without just just being there. So yeah, it’s it’s really incredible.

58:19

All right, we’re gonna take the show on the road. We’re gonna do a silent podcast. In Bali? Yeah. Yeah. Okay, well, we can talk in the hallway there, like 20 something. Ready for some silence? Yeah. All right. We’re rounding third heading home. I appreciate that analogy.

58:40

I figured you might. What are ways that that you personally are helping to do business better. So that can mean a lot of different things. But, you know, in a world where like you said, we’re moving so fast, we’re constantly trying to like, get ahead and do all these different things. I think there’s a lot of things that, you know, we’re figuring out as the world evolves, and we’re finding ways to do business better. So what does that mean to you? And how is Empire? How are you doing business better these days? Yeah, there’s

59:07

a couple ways. I mean, obviously, I think Empire as a whole. For a very basic level, our deals are just structured very differently. And we didn’t know kind of coming into Nashville, what, how that would be received or perceived. But from the very basic level, like we never take ownership. And so that allows the artist that has created this to always own own that content, and that that music, because that’s it’s theirs, we’re just here to help facilitate that. And that fosters a loyalty and a respect. And that continues to just kind of grow and grow. And we’ve seen that just, you know, 2020 was one of the best years, if not the best year for Empire, just in terms of growth and the amount of music and artists and great content. And so I think that on a very basic level of of just doing business better is doing right by by the artist, and right by the industry to go like, you know, we don’t take ownership of that. But we’re here to help you grow that and not only just help that artist, but there are a lot of artists that have developing artists under them that they’re helping grow. So it’s, it’s getting involved in that business on a human level to the one teach the artists the business, why they because there’s a lot of artists that don’t understand the business. And there’s a lot of artists that do, but those that don’t, it’s like, let me teach will teach you the business. And then those that you are fostering and developing, you can then kind of see the end and the business just flourishes and continues to grow from that. So I think on a very basic level, and part does extremely well. So that’s great to be a part of, I think on a on a human level on a personal level of of doing it, it’s just operating,

1:00:53

um,

1:00:56

maybe with a loyalty and a an honesty, that I’m not driven by numbers, I’m not driven by bonuses, I’m not driven by any of that, you know, not that they’re bad. But I think that that can pose an issue when it becomes You know, when that starts to become a priority. And so being not not held to that or driven by that allows a bit of a sense of freedom to then be loyal to the teams and the artists that we are in business with and could potentially be in business with.

1:01:30

I love that. Very cool. All right, moving on to our kind of final rapid fire questions. These are always fun love to hear what what people have to say, but what is your favorite book or one that you’ve read recently?

1:01:44

Favorite book? I already mentioned Renee, so probably anything by her. I just finished in the middle of 2020 I finished jen hatmaker fierce free and full of fire. That was fantastic. So yeah, I would say that right off the top of my head if we’re if we’re doing rapid fire. That’s

1:02:02

perfect, perfect. What’s your sort of systemized daily routine? What’s something you have to do every single day?

1:02:08

Oh, workout peloton every morning, it doesn’t matter what what time My day starts, I will get up. And I learned this before 2020 I was already in kind of this rhythm. So it’s funny. People were like, how did you do that in 2020. With you know, we just ended up sitting on the couch. And I was like it was already a habit. I was just lucky enough that I’d already created that habit. So doesn’t matter what time My day starts, I will get up and at least do one hour.

1:02:32

So what’s the best piece of advice you’ve either given or received?

1:02:38

I can’t answer the given because that’s still the verdict is still out. There’s probably a couple in received. One is is Frank’s of working with great people making great music with great people. I think that’s just very it seems very basic. But at the end of the day, like that’s, that’s really kind of the win for me. Yeah, I would say that one

1:03:02

limit. So you mentioned peloton being an habit you’ve formed previously, what’s a relatively new habit good or bad?

1:03:11

Oh, I’m sure there’s lots of bad, you may give you a bad. Bad. I have probably lost a lot of work life balance a little bit in 2020. You know, there’s no break, there’s no leaving the office, you’re just home. So that’s probably the worst habit is in February that I was like, ah, hold on. I’m still emailing at 830 and haven’t stopped for dinner or something like that, which, you know, leaving an office gives you that break. So I’ve had to start to become very aware of that or have started to become aware. I haven’t fixed it yet. good habit. Yeah, I mean, probably just continue like self care, self care, but always tried to say, incredibly aware, I started meditating after Bali. And that’s been amazing, it’s been really helpful. Even if it’s just a five minute a day, that taking those deep breaths, like forcing those deep breaths within your body is is so beneficial. You know, with whatever your however you meditate, whatever that looks like. Yeah, that’s definitely changed.

1:04:19

For sure. Cool. If you could write a book, what would the title be? Oh gosh, a book. Or in your case, if you can put your own billboard out in the world, what would you

1:04:33

say? Well, billboards different. I think my my book and my billboard would say two different things. My book would probably say all that to say with da da da. I think that is what I probably get the most, like, harped on about in my life, is that at the end of every conversation? I usually that’s my wrap up when I’m done with the conversation and what I’ve said what I needed to say when the when the when the meeting He’s done. It’s like art, all that to say, here’s your wrap up and we’re out. So that’s probably what the book would say. I mean, sneakers and snacks. You know, there could be lots of lots of puns in there you know? But peloton and sushi are the great thing so

1:05:16

I think what I’ve been made aware of lately is that mine would probably be real quick Hey real quick now you got me think about sushi What’s the best thing that you’ve bought in the last year? Under $100?

1:05:36

Oh, by far my whoop bracelet. Yeah, yeah, it tells me what I need to rest which is good. And then it also tells me when I should work harder so or sleep more To be honest, I I got it because I was like, I have no idea. Am I sleeping enough? Am I resting enough? You know so? Which is ridiculous. I feel like only someone with my personality would say that I don’t know of anybody else but yeah, that for sure.

1:06:00

Are you a Netflix or news consumer?

1:06:03

Netflix? Yeah. I mean, I wish I was a news consumer I’m just not i’m not

1:06:09

Hey, nothing wrong with that there’s there’s rarely anything good on the news.

1:06:13

Yeah, I see what’s trending on Twitter every day and that’s kind of the the Reader’s Digest version but anything I try and keep up with current you know, in power we have a group chat like with everyone that anything that is remotely relevant I think gets that gets fed through there. So I’ll, I’ll scroll that a little bit. But yeah, I’m definitely Netflix.

1:06:36

This may be hard for you. Okay. favorite artists? Oh musician,

1:06:41

currently to listen to because obviously live shows are out so that that helps me dwindle it down on my on my playlist right now. Patrick droney James Blake. I am Neil mellow to my core. I feel like a lot of people would think I would say country but it’s actually pretty rare. Unless it’s my own artist or potential new artists that I get. I get a ton of music sent to me and so if it’s that but if I’m just listening if I’m cooking, which is kind of you know, my relaxing time of just cooking or meal prepping or something I have on some good Neo mellow some good chill just I love a good luck chill Britpop, like, love it.

1:07:25

Last question. Talking about cooking. What’s your favorite food? What do you like to cook the most? Or where do you like to go?

1:07:31

Oh, sushi by far? Yeah, I love it. It’s weird to say being so landlocked. But there’s a couple great spots here. But yeah, I I don’t know. It took me a long time. I never had it until I moved to Nashville, after I lived in doubt, like lived in Dallas and then moved back. And I just didn’t get it. I didn’t I never had it. And then I had it. And I was like, Okay, I could eat that probably at least three nights a week. I don’t but I could for sure.

1:07:57

I think I may go to Morocco now as you should. Where’s your top? Top place in national Qa?

1:08:06

For sure. It’s in German town. Yeah, that’s my go to vote. I like Virago. But yeah, oh, cause definitely better.

1:08:14

Good to know. Yeah. All right, Heather, it’s been a pleasure. I really appreciate you taking the time. It’s so good to see you. Thank you.

1:08:24

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